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Topic: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Topic: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

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Cellis033
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Member Since: 11/11/2021
Location: Powell, OH
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Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/17/2023 5:14:22 PM

Was reading this article from 2017 detailing the falling out of favor the MAC had with the NCAA on securing two bids, and can't help but wonder if we would ever reach that point again. Currently, I just don't see many P5 wins in recent years and I think that is partially what is holding us back.

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2017/03/march_ma...

Chase
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Muck Fiami
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DXer
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Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Mobile, AL
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/17/2023 6:49:58 PM

Just about a month ago there was an article on one of the wire services that the power conferences want to get more of their teams into the NCAA tournament. It was suggested that the tournament expand to 90 teams. Since we all know that the power conferences run the show, this is quite a serious proposal. Where Ohio comes in is that we agree with the proposal, but only as long as the MAC gets a second guaranteed bid as part of the expansion. The same would be true for the other largest mid-major conferences who are now just one-bid conferences in basketball, but play at the FBS level in football.

So the big benefit of having two guaranteed bids would be that we return to system where the regular-season becomes important again, just like it was years ago. The regular season winner is the MAC Champion, period, and gets the first NCAA bid. You would see a dramatic increase in attendance at local games now that these games are now important again.

You can still have the Conference tournament in Cleveland, and it remains as important as ever, since the winner in Cleveland gets the MAC�s second bid to the tournament. And the tournament becomes even better for the participants since the best team during the season doesn�t play in it (they already have a spot in the NCAA tournament), so everyone in Cleveland has a much better shot at winning it, thus increasing fan interest and attendance there.

Pete Chouteau
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/17/2023 6:57:02 PM

Expansion to 90 adds 22 teams.

The 2022 NCAA tournament featured 22 single-bid conferences.

The Two-Bid Model is DOA.

longtiimelurker
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Member Since: 2/2/2017
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/17/2023 7:33:15 PM

Cellis033 wrote:

Elton.

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/17/2023 10:34:37 PM

According to some commentators the MAC will be a two bid league this year � on the distaff side! This has happened two times before in recent memory. One year two MAC teams made the Sweet 16 at the same time. In fact, we were almost a three-bid league once, with OHIO the last team out according to several bracketologists.

Last Edited: 2/17/2023 10:35:22 PM by OhioCatFan

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GraffZ06
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/18/2023 12:36:03 AM

Not a chance.

Three reasons

1) The ever growing financial gulf between P5 and everyone else
2) The MAC insisting on competing in FBS simultaneous with hoops, while dealing with #1
3) The expansion of D1 over the last 25 years has created more conferences and more auto bids for teams like Tarleton St and New Jersey Institute of Technology, stealing those precious few at large chances for any conference not in top 8 or 9. (We all know the expansion to 68 just added 4 additional P5 teams as the new last 4 in).

Seriously - Queens University, Central Arkansas, Massachusetts at Lowell (a branch campus!), Maryland Baltimore County, Sacramento St, Longwood, South Carolina Upstate (that's not a real direction), Indiana University Purdue University Fort Wayne (a JOINT branch campus!), Merrimack....the list goes on.

These are NOT D1 caliber schools. These are D2 and NAIA schools competing in D1 as a money grab and just shows the gulf between "real" D1 and everyone else - and the NCAA doesn't care.

MonroeClassmate
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Member Since: 8/31/2010
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/18/2023 8:35:57 AM

Not trying to thread jack, but didn't want to start a new thread.

Given that the top 25 has teams with numerous loses, where would Kent have been ranked if they had an unblemished MAC record?

FJC31
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/18/2023 9:04:37 AM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

Not trying to thread jack, but didn't want to start a new thread.

Given that the top 25 has teams with numerous loses, where would Kent have been ranked if they had an unblemished MAC record?

I think Kent would be in the 20�s, with a ceiling of the high teens. Kent has no bad losses (single digits to three ranked opponents); but also doesn�t have the signature P5 win for a �resume boost�, even though you can make the argument that the VT win for Charleston and Florida win for FAU are just so-so. Kent�s best wins non-conference are South Dakota State, NKU, and Cleveland State. Which are solid mid-major wins, but you don�t get enough points for that.

Last Edited: 2/18/2023 9:04:57 AM by FJC31

bornacatfan
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/18/2023 11:49:14 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Not a chance.

Three reasons

1) The ever-growing financial gulf between P5 and everyone else
2) The MAC insisting on competing in FBS simultaneous with hoops while dealing with #1
3) The expansion of D1 over the last 25 years has created more conferences and more auto bids for teams like Tarleton St and New Jersey Institute of Technology, stealing those precious few at large chances for any conference not in top 8 or 9. (We all know the expansion to 68 just added 4 additional P5 teams as the new last 4 in).

Seriously - Queens University, Central Arkansas, Massachusetts at Lowell (a branch campus!), Maryland Baltimore County, Sacramento St, Longwood, South Carolina Upstate (that's not a real direction), Indiana University Purdue University Fort Wayne (a JOINT branch campus!), Merrimack....the list goes on.

These are NOT D1 caliber schools. These are D2 and NAIA schools competing in D1 as a money grab and just shows the gulf between "real" D1 and everyone else - and the NCAA doesn't care.

Not D1? Playing right into the P5 hands aren't you? IUPUI, Purdue Ft Wayne (it is not IPFW) has beaten Indiana a few times, UMBC stole a victory to become the first 16 to beat a 1...

The list goes on but instead of looking at the bigger problem some have been trying to address .....expansion of the NCAA MEMBER SCHOOLs at the D1 level happening yearly WITHOUT concurrent expansion of the tourney powerfully held by and motivated with money/shares which the P5 wants to hold the payout and split amongst the conferences keeping shares.... myopic fans want to ignore or deter expansion and only send the money to those who have held it for decades. The tourney would not suffer by expanding the format to 128. It does not even add an extra day as the first four format already did that. The NCAA D1 Basketball tournament remains the lowest % of qualifiers in any sport for post-season tournament qualifiers and advancement. While the rest of sports professional and amateur are expanding the NCAA and the member schools that control access to money and shares continue to not only deny access to tournament but expand the base that they draw from. Instead of diminishing those schools that are adding opportunities both academically and athletically why don't we look past the brainwashing that the Dukes, Kentuckys, Texas', States and others want us to believe that they are the only ones deserving to be seen and seek to share the opportunities athletics provides to a huge number of folks. Padding the billfolds of those Unis with all the power by granting them access to 7 years of shares for each game they win widens the chasm between them and the programs like Ohio and other "D2" unis like Cleveland State, Wright State, IUPUI, UC Davis/Bakersfield/Fullerton et al or even UAB, the former Final Four qualifiers Jacksonville Junior College or the former Municipal University of Wichita that did not become WSU till 1964... The NCAA MEMBER schools are controlling who is in and who is out. The big names have a vested interest in keeping things controlled and money going into their pockets. Schools in the MAC, MEAC, American East, ASun, American, WCC, Horizon and others are good schools and research facilities that are finding it harder to compete as resources from athletics are controlled by the "haves". If you had time to go through a variety of facilities, locker rooms, and offices of different institutions you could appreciate the levels of change in weight facilities, educational resources, coaching situations, nutrition of athletes and a myriad of things surrounding athletes from top to bottom. There is no good solution but clamoring more about "stealing spots" rather than figuring out the equitable sharing of a resource as things expand and giving access to more "have nots" seems a little insane. 64 now 68 spots for a sport that has seen expansion from a couple hundred to over 350 schools with more coming online seems to be the definition of "power held by a few with self interest in mind"

Up above the comment said "Seriously.." but I have a hard time looking at the list and taking anything after that seriously. Staying mired in the past and giving license to those "old school" powers to tenaciously hold on to power to the disadvantage of seeing more seats of learning and those who would benefit by their ability to grow and change and to offer more education seems short sighted and a bit disappointing. Watching The Ohio University and it's counterparts left behind by the folk who deem themselves "Blue Bloods" while expanding the A&Ms and State schools that have had athletic teams gain exposure permitting them to build world class research facilities off the exposure seems a little less than altruistic toward folks roots and connections.

Rant over. Stepping Off the soapbox.

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TWT
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RE: Two Bid MAC: Soon?

Posted: 2/18/2023 1:23:16 PM

Expansion of the tournament should only be allowed if it addresses a problem. When the field moved from 64/65 to 68 it was to adjust for a reduced amount of at-large bids with 32 conferences out there. Some might not see that as a problem and it was only a slight tweak to the formula.

Another tweak should be adding 4 more regular season champs that didn't win their conference tournament and didn't otherwise qualify for the field based on NET or quad wins or whatever other excuse the committee came up with to leave them out. Those champs will include 24-25 game winners and history has shown from taking a look at the performance of those 11/12 seed bubble teams they are certainly capable of making runs in the NCAA tournament. Selecting teams for the NCAA tournament becomes in-exact science in that 11/12/13 range where a couple of them are always a lot better than that seed line.

72/76/80 with some regular season champs guaranteed is fine as incremental improvement. That would help the MAC as it often has one of the best regular season champs left out. It would also help the MAC place more teams into the NIT since more current NIT participants would be in the dance.

25 win Belmont wins the MVC without a Quad 1 win. VCU goes 22-12 with a Quad 1 win. Seton Hall has no Quad 1 wins but a lot of Quad 2 with 19-15 record in the stacked Big East but a NBA lottery pick. Its hard to say when you have any one of them in there who is going to pull out a Sweet 16 when all 3 might have the talent to do it. Too many Belmont's which could be really good don't make it in over the years.

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2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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