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Topic: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Topic: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

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shabamon
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You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/21/2020 3:07:59 PM

For context, Chicago State is 20-137 over the past five years and will be 20-138 after Wednesday.

I have my ideas but will wait for others to go first.

SVAC83
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/21/2020 4:07:54 PM

I have no idea what your thoughts would be. But i think i would search Chicago and all of Illinois and the Detroit area for players.

Secondly i would try to get out of the WAC and in to either the Horizon or summit leagues. because those are some crazy road trips and no real way to build rivalries.

i am sure there are several other things but that would have to help.

Pataskala
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/21/2020 6:20:26 PM

First thing that has to happen is beyond their control -- the homicide rate in Chicago has to come down. The situation there might not be as ubiquitous as people think, but Chicago has a very bad rep. Nobody wants to come to the Chicago area to go to school and Chicago kids are practically setting themselves on fire to get out of there. Chicago talent is easy pickings for out-of-town schools and as a result none of the Chicago-area D1 teams are doing very well. UIC had the best conference record among Chicago D1 teams last year, 10-8.

Looking over the roster, they do a lot of national recruiting, but it appears they just can't attract the talent. (Possibly because of Chicago's bad rep.) Maybe they should go more international to beef up the program and make it more attractive. They have a seven-footer from Luxembourg. They should try to expand their reach.

Changing conferences would certainly help. The WAC just ain't what it used to be with the likes of California Baptist, UT Rio Grande, and Grand Canyon in the conference. NMSU probably has the most name recognition. And the only school in Chi St's time zone is UMKC. The Summit seems to be the best option because it has nine schools and could use a tenth. Also, a few of the Summit schools were in the Great West Conference with Chi St a few years ago. I don't know why they didn't go along. Maybe the Summit required football at the time?

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

JSF
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/21/2020 7:39:05 PM

Cheat.

Quote:

Chicago talent is easy pickings for out-of-town schools and as a result none of the Chicago-area D1 teams are doing very well.

Didn't a Chicago team just make the Final Four?

Also, Chicago's homicides have dropped from 769 in 2016 to 492 last year.

Last Edited: 11/21/2020 7:45:16 PM by JSF

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

El Gato Roberto
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/21/2020 8:30:29 PM

JSF wrote:

Cheat.

Quote:

Chicago talent is easy pickings for out-of-town schools and as a result none of the Chicago-area D1 teams are doing very well.

Didn't a Chicago team just make the Final Four?

Also, Chicago's homicides have dropped from 769 in 2016 to 492 last year.

Thanks JSF. You�re accurate in that perception.
I�m always stunned at the number of �experts� on what life is like in Chicago who don�t live here. Smh

Last Edited: 11/21/2020 8:32:15 PM by El Gato Roberto

"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."

OUVan
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/21/2020 9:00:09 PM

Pataskala wrote:

My son is in his Senior year at Illinois Institute of Technology, which is on the South Side, literally across the Dan Ryan from Comiskey Park (lost track of the current name). We had the same fears when he was considering the school. Doing our research however we found out that the campus had a lower crime rate than the University of Maryland and many other campuses. Just down the street is the University of Chicago. I can assure you demand to get in both schools is pretty high. The D1 schools are in pretty nice areas and I've never had any trepidation about walking around the downtown area. Yes, the murder rate has to come down but I seriously doubt it has any effect on recruiting, especially local talent which is going to know the ins-and-outs on where they should and shouldn't be walking at night. I confess that I don't know much about Chicago State but my understanding is the immediate area is pretty safe. I think the biggest hurdle a coach will face is getting quality recruits to come to a school with no history of success. But all it will take is one coach to get the ball rolling in the right direction. But I would think the City of Chicago should be a huge selling point not a detriment.

Pataskala
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/22/2020 12:10:44 AM

I enjoyed Chicago when I interned there in the early '70s. But it's rep nationally has deteriorated a lot, maybe because of the current occupant of the White House. One reason is the homicide rate; it's at 700 for the year with five weeks to go.

Yeah, I missed Loyola, which also had a really good year last year (14-2 in the conference). And Loyola, UIC and Depaul each have 4-5 players from the Chicago area but the others are lucky to have two. Loyola's came right out of high school while Depaul's and UIC's transferred in from elsewhere.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

shabamon
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/22/2020 10:04:38 AM

Here's what I do:

Off the bat, go the full Texas Southern when it comes to scheduling. The athletics department and school overall need cash, so schedule a murderer's row and collect checks. I don't know if the WAC has a mandate on minimum non-conference home games, but whatever exists beyond that requirement should be spent on the road at Kansas, Notre Dame, Indiana, Michigan, etc. Get at least $80,000 per game. Yes, you will get blown out 99% of the time, but you will make a name for yourself and it could be attractive to recruits to say we're going to give you the chance to play in Allen Fieldhouse, Crisler Arena, etc.

In terms of recruiting, a number of different things you could do:

-I've heard in California if you have the makings of a D1 prospect, you'll get an offer from UC-Irvine before your sophomore year is over. There will be a lot they don't hit, but they make a name for themselves in the region and are able to fill their roster with California guys. Be that program in Illinois. Be a mainstay at Whitney Young, Simeon, etc and target the second or third best guy in each class.

-Be Last Chance U. Target some transfers that may have flamed out at bigger schools. Character issues be damned, get you some talent.

-Using your newfound cash, spend some on recruiting internationally. As has been mentioned, there's more smoke than fire when it comes to Chicago's reputation. It is still a world city that is going to be far more attractive than your average college town.

Shoot somewhat high for a point guard that can get you five assists a game, but then load up on athletes between 6'2'' and 6'8''. Don't bother taking a chance on a 6'10'' stiff. Run a five out offense and press all game. Go all in on small ball. Go 10+ deep, force turnovers, and bomb away from three. You're not going to out-athlete anybody, but one area you can always improve is shooting. Be the Grinnell College of Division 1, so....

Make sure one of your assistants can really teach shooting technique. For another assistant spot, hire the most high profile coach in the Illinois AAU scene. They're going to be able to identify the guys you want to target as early as sophomore year.

This is outside your control, but find a way into the Horizon League or at worst back into the Summit. The Horizon carried two Chicago teams for almost 20 years. It can be done again.

Last Edited: 11/22/2020 10:06:55 AM by shabamon

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/22/2020 12:04:11 PM

Chicago gets so much attention nationally because it's one of the few major cities with a top ~30 per capita murder rate, and therefore the gross numbers are high.

But on a per capita basis, places like St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, Cleveland, DC, Cincinnati, and Baton Rouge are worse off than Chicago.

When LSU or UC gets a new coach, nobody says, "the first thing they've got to do is clean up the crime, otherwise he won't be able to recruit."

Last Edited: 11/22/2020 2:17:38 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

giacomo
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/22/2020 5:18:29 PM

This is hilarious! It�s obvious none of you have ever met our former president, Richard Nixon. You don�t know Dick.

Big Willy
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/22/2020 7:29:27 PM

JSF wrote:

Cheat.

Quote:

Chicago talent is easy pickings for out-of-town schools and as a result none of the Chicago-area D1 teams are doing very well.

Didn't a Chicago team just make the Final Four?

Also, Chicago's homicides have dropped from 769 in 2016 to 492 last year.

And 694 so far this year.

ou79
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/22/2020 9:34:36 PM

Chicago State was in the Mid Continent Conference (Mid-Con) from 1994-2006. For those of you who do not know, the MidCon is now the Summit League. Chicago State was tossed in 2006 from the league and went independent until it was accepted into the WAC. Chicago State would like to come back to the Summit but that will not occur. Academics, finances, facilities and other reasons exist that the current members of the Summit will not take Chicago State back.

As for UMKC, they are no longer in the WAC and will start their first full season back in the Summit this year.

As for Grand Canyon University, take a look at their athletic facilities and athletic budget. They put most of the MAC to shame.

Last Edited: 11/22/2020 9:35:57 PM by ou79

Sikey3
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/23/2020 12:34:24 AM

This is always a good topic to discuss. I live in the area and my buddies and I have had this conversation numerous times. Chicago public school kids that don�t have grades for higher level schools usually aren�t interested because they want to get away from the area. However, I still think having a connection to Chicago kids is key because the hope is you start winning and good Chicago kids will eventually want to play there. And at moment they do with Lance Irvin as the Irvin name is huge in Chicago. In fact, his brother became assistant at western Illinois recently and already getting Chicago kids. But to get to that point? I agree with Texas southern comment already here and the last chance u comment. You need talent to win and exposure to help get players. By playing on tv nearly every non conference game, that would help recruiting some juco players a tad . Hope is yet build a team eventually that wins and then you can start getting local kids.!

Sikey3
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/23/2020 12:36:26 AM

shabamon wrote:

Horizon idea is fantastic and good post overall

JSF
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/23/2020 2:34:49 PM

It's good to keep in mind murder numbers are up everywhere, given... you know, everything.

giacomo wrote:

This is hilarious! It�s obvious none of you have ever met our former president, Richard Nixon. You don�t know Dick.

What is your issue? Why are you here? What's the point of coming here and logging on just to denigrate everyone? It's clear you don't have respect for any of us, so why bother?

giacomo
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/23/2020 8:39:15 PM

Just having a little fun. You know you�re going to use my Nixon line!

Jeff McKinney
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/23/2020 9:31:28 PM

I'm guessing budget limitations is the biggest problem for Chicago State.

Donuts
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/24/2020 7:56:30 AM

Beat Ohio

shabamon
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/24/2020 9:33:54 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I'm guessing budget limitations is the biggest problem for Chicago State.

According to Three Man Weave, Chicago State's basketball budget is the largest intra-conference discrepancy of any team in America. Their budget is 66% below the WAC average.

OUVan
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/24/2020 10:29:33 AM

shabamon wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I'm guessing budget limitations is the biggest problem for Chicago State.

According to Three Man Weave, Chicago State's basketball budget is the largest intra-conference discrepancy of any team in America. Their budget is 66% below the WAC average.

Job one should be get to a conference that fits. Summit seems like the best fit and they only have 9 teams currently.

GoCats105
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/24/2020 11:16:55 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Youngstown would like a word with you on your per capita cities.

I don't know if it's changed for the better in the last 15 years, but when my brother was at YSU he said it was the only place he'd ever been where cops told the students to run red lights at night.

The Optimist
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/24/2020 11:19:55 AM

I�d offer DJ Cooper III a scholarship and then play buy games and bide my time until he is in college.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/24/2020 11:57:11 AM

shabamon wrote:

Off the bat, go the full Texas Southern when it comes to scheduling. The athletics department and school overall need cash, so schedule a murderer's row and collect checks. I don't know if the WAC has a mandate on minimum non-conference home games, but whatever exists beyond that requirement should be spent on the road at Kansas, Notre Dame, Indiana, Michigan, etc. Get at least $80,000 per game. Yes, you will get blown out 99% of the time, but you will make a name for yourself and it could be attractive to recruits to say we're going to give you the chance to play in Allen Fieldhouse, Crisler Arena, etc.

I agree with this completely. I'm always surprised more mid-majors don't do this. I guess you kind of need to have a decent win percentage or whatever, but I feel like recruits who aren't quite getting interest from the Michigans of the world would be attracted by the idea of being able to play the Michagans of the world consistently.

shabamon wrote:

Shoot somewhat high for a point guard that can get you five assists a game, but then load up on athletes between 6'2'' and 6'8''. Don't bother taking a chance on a 6'10'' stiff. Run a five out offense and press all game. Go all in on small ball. Go 10+ deep, force turnovers, and bomb away from three. You're not going to out-athlete anybody, but one area you can always improve is shooting. Be the Grinnell College of Division 1, so....

Agree 100% here. This feels like an exploitable market inefficiency to me. The NBA is moving towards positionless, switchable small ball -- if I'm a mid-major, I'm experimenting with an extreme of that, for sure. 7 seconds or less, 5 shooters, and effectively a bunch of positionless players. The college three point line's too close as is -- every three is basically a good shot. You should take 4x the number your opponent does.

Last point I'd make is that you should make a very conscious effort to make sure your program is a professional pipeline into a career in basketball. At this level, that means that you want to make sure you have a good relationship with agents in Europe, an extended coaching tree to get post-grad assistanceships, and relationships with the D-League and NBA so your players can do internships in the meantime.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/24/2020 12:05:53 PM

shabamon wrote:

...and will be 20-138 after Wednesday.

You gonna just sit there and tolerate this reckless disrespect for a formidable opponent, McKinney?

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

The Optimist
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RE: You've been named head coach at Chicago State. You have a four year contract. How do you turn the program around and keep your job?

Posted: 11/25/2020 8:44:42 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

shabamon wrote:

[QUOTE=shabamon]
Shoot somewhat high for a point guard that can get you five assists a game, but then load up on athletes between 6'2'' and 6'8''. Don't bother taking a chance on a 6'10'' stiff. Run a five out offense and press all game. Go all in on small ball. Go 10+ deep, force turnovers, and bomb away from three. You're not going to out-athlete anybody, but one area you can always improve is shooting. Be the Grinnell College of Division 1, so....

Any mid-major that isn�t looking at what the Houston Rockets did this season with PJ Tucker at center is a dinosaur.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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