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Topic: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Topic: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

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OUVan
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OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/17/2019 1:53:31 PM

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/26767786/oh...

Not sure if this has already been discussed but could we be looking at another Penn State?

rpbobcat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/17/2019 2:56:21 PM

This story has been discussed a lot on the wrestling boards, since it first broke a year or so ago.

However, this is the first time I've read about it involving anyone but OSU student athletes.

A lot of the discussion involved if/should OSU coaches have known what was going on.

Two wrestlers made a number of accusations about wrestling coaches having to know what was going on,even though,apparently,they never told any of their coaches.

They based their claims on jokes being over heard in the locker room.

Things like " how come Dr.Strauss checked my crotch,when I went to see him for a sprained thumb?"

According to several stories I've read,there was,to be polite,somewhat of a perverse environment at OSU's old athletic facility where the locker rooms for sports like wrestling were.
The articles said there was an open gallery where you could see into the locker rooms and/or showers.
That became a hang out for what you could call "lewd behavior".

Last Edited: 5/17/2019 2:57:58 PM by rpbobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/18/2019 10:37:02 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

22 coaches in the report acknowledge that they were aware of the rumors about this doctor. That's across many sports and many years, so I don't know how significant that number is, but that at least does lend some credence to the claims by wrestlers that their coaches may well have known.

Whether they did or not, it's clear that culturally many of our institutions are ill-equipped to deal with abuse and that for too long the SOP was to look the other way. Penn State, Michigan State, the Catholic Church, the Boy Scouts. There are several new examples each year.

Last Edited: 5/18/2019 10:55:03 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

BillyTheCat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 9:23:15 AM

But it�s good to know that long time assistant wrestling coach Jim Jordan had no ideas any of this was happening.

cbus cat fan
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 9:56:17 AM

Billy we have a tragic story of abuse and you have to turn it into political issue, even though Jim Jordan wasn't mentioned at all in the report. It's a nice outside the bubble, you might want to venture out once in a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKOb-kmOgpI

Last Edited: 5/19/2019 9:56:47 AM by cbus cat fan

rpbobcat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 10:10:20 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

But it�s good to know that long time assistant wrestling coach Jim Jordan had no ideas any of this was happening.

Like I posted before,this has been the a topic of conversation on the wrestling boards since the story broke about a year ago.

Funny,of all the head and asst. coaches, in all the sports,during the time period when this was going on,the only coach's name that gets mentioned is Jim Jordan.

Neither of the wrestlers who went public said they told any member of the coaching staff about their abuse when they were at OSU.

They said the coaching staff "should have known",based on jokes,like the one I posted,going around the locker room.

But others said that,at that time,comments like that were common about all kinds of people,including their teammates.

After Jordan's name was mentioned as being an asst. coach when this happened,a number of former OSU wrestlers came out to say that,in their opinion,there was no way any member of the coaching staff knew what the doctor was doing.

As I also posted,I haven't read anything about any abused wrestler claiming they told their coaches.

The only thing I have read is a wrestler asking a third party be present when they were examined.

I also wonder why there isn't the same scrutiny being given to former OSU President Gee concerning his denials regarding Strauss,including letters Strauss wrote to protest his firing.

Last Edited: 5/19/2019 10:27:14 AM by rpbobcat

cc-cat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 10:38:53 AM

OUVan wrote:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/26767786/oh...

Not sure if this has already been discussed but could we be looking at another Penn State?

this is no longer a wrestling story. it is going to get much much worse. Gee saying he has �no recollection� is absurd. Not sure it will get to penn state level but certainly see it far exceeding Mich State.

Pataskala
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 11:47:45 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

But it�s good to know that long time assistant wrestling coach Jim Jordan had no ideas any of this was happening.

There is none so blind as he who will not see (or at least not admitting that he saw). Really rocks whatever credibility he has as a Trump defender.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

rpbobcat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 1:15:27 PM

Pataskala wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

But it�s good to know that long time assistant wrestling coach Jim Jordan had no ideas any of this was happening.

There is none so blind as he who will not see (or at least not admitting that he saw). Really rocks whatever credibility he has as a Trump defender.

Maybe you should read what the wrestlers who were there at the time have said.

As I posted,the 2 wrestlers who, years later,went public,never said anything other then they think Jordan, and by the way,other coaches at the time,"should" have known what was going on.

A number of other wrestlers have stated that they don't think Jordan,or any other coach had any idea what was going on.

As I said,this story was big news on the wrestling boards when it broke.

If you'd like to see both sides' comments about Jordan,including how people felt it would affect his chances of re-election last year,you can check out the college wrestling forum at http://www.teamusa.org/USA-wrestling .

I would think the threads are still there.

You also have to remember the time frame when this happened.
Like I posted,the 2 wrestlers have said Jordan should have known what was going on,based on locker room jokes.

I wrestled in college in the late 70's.
Some comments I made/heard in the locker room:

How come ________ smiles every time someone uses a "high crotch"?

How come _______ is always the first one into the showers,but last one out ?

How come trainer _________ said he had to check my groin,when my ankle was what I hurt ?

One thing that a number of people do think was odd,was that guys in "tough" sports like wrestling,football etc. would let this guy do what he did.
Especially more then once.

Some people have said they believe Strauss had enough pull with Administration to threaten athletes with loss of their scholarship if they went public.

Last Edited: 5/19/2019 1:28:24 PM by rpbobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 4:42:34 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

But it�s good to know that long time assistant wrestling coach Jim Jordan had no ideas any of this was happening.

There is none so blind as he who will not see (or at least not admitting that he saw). Really rocks whatever credibility he has as a Trump defender.

One thing that a number of people do think was odd,was that guys in "tough" sports like wrestling,football etc. would let this guy do what he did.
Especially more then once.

Some people have said they believe Strauss had enough pull with Administration to threaten athletes with loss of their scholarship if they went public.

This really isn't odd at all if you understand the psychology of abuse. Many, many victims place the blame on themselves and as a result, are afraid to come forward. Serial abusers often cultivate victims in a way that makes them especially prone to blaming themselves and as a result they're far less likely to come forward.

Here's to hoping many people at OSU are held accountable for their repeated failures here. There report makes it clear there were rumors about this guy's behavior for years, and nobody in a position of leadership ever took the steps to investigate and protect these students. This lasted two decades. Pathetic leadership.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 7:05:44 PM

cc-cat wrote:

OUVan wrote:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/26767786/oh...

Not sure if this has already been discussed but could we be looking at another Penn State?

Just read on Collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com that according to the attorney for Mike DiSabato, dozens of the victims were OSU football players. Beyond sad.

Last Edited: 5/19/2019 7:09:16 PM by Mark Lembright '85

giacomo
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 7:58:39 PM

These are adults we�re talking about, not little children. If some trainer or doctor tried to feel my crotch when I was 18-22 years old, I guarantee I would have pushed him away and told someone of authority.

OhioCatFan
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/19/2019 11:42:18 PM

giacomo wrote:

+1

Yes, some of these folks are acting like they are back in grade school. No personal responsibility to take the necessary actions to end the behavior of the offender. Maybe the age of majority and the voting age needs to be raised to 25. Seems people these days are becoming mature adults at a later age, not an earlier one. [Note: I'm about half serious about the above remarks. They are strident, but we do have a serious societal problem not only with these sexual predators but in the way many individuals who are preyed upon are reacting to the abuse. I have a relative who was abused as a child. I'm very much aware of how a child reacts in these situations, and BLSS has described it well. However, an adult should react in an entirely different, more mature way. That seems often not to be happening in these situations. I find that very puzzling.]

Last Edited: 5/19/2019 11:43:22 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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BillyTheCat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 2:21:39 AM

cbus cat fan wrote:

AP story I read this weekend specifically mentioned that Jim Jordan is NOT mentioned as one of the coaches that knew. That makes it news, not political any more than that is what was specifically reported.

BillyTheCat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 2:23:38 AM

Pataskala wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

But it�s good to know that long time assistant wrestling coach Jim Jordan had no ideas any of this was happening.

There is none so blind as he who will not see (or at least not admitting that he saw). Really rocks whatever credibility he has as a Trump defender.

When did Trump defenders have any credibility?

rpbobcat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 6:29:25 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

giacomo wrote:

I agree with Giamaco and OCF about how an adult should react in this type of situation.

As I mentioned briefly in an earlier post,some people felt Strauss thought he had enough pull with OSU to threaten athletes with having their scholarship pulled if they said anything.

I've read that some victims have now said that he did intimidate/threaten them to keep silent.

I have started reading OSU's report.
The Executive Summary does a pretty good job of laying out the results of the investigation.

Last Edited: 5/20/2019 7:26:29 AM by rpbobcat

rpbobcat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 7:04:41 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

But it�s good to know that long time assistant wrestling coach Jim Jordan had no ideas any of this was happening.

There is none so blind as he who will not see (or at least not admitting that he saw). Really rocks whatever credibility he has as a Trump defender.

When did Trump defenders have any credibility?

You posted that an AP story said that Jordan was not mentioned as one of the coaches that knew.

That's consistent with all the other news reports I've read.

That's also consistent with what he's been saying since day one.

So,wouldn't that make Jordan ,at least as far as this matter is concerned,"credible" ?

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 8:03:01 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

giacomo wrote:

You really should read up on the psychology of abuse. It doesn't apply only to children, and casting this as a lack of personal responsibility lacks even a basic level of human empathy.

It's very easy to put yourself in a victim's shoes and say you'd behave differently; it's much different when you've actually been the victim of a crime.

Half-seriousness aside, it's pretty gross that there are multiple posters here who feel the victims bear some level of culpability for not coming forward sooner.

cc-cat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 8:38:16 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

giacomo wrote:

She shouldn�t have been drunk in a bar that late at night.
Look at what she was wearing.
She was known to have sex.

smh

cbus cat fan
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 9:39:09 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

cbus cat fan wrote:

Then why did you sarcastically throw his name into the mix?

If we are going to use the standard that anyone employed by a large institution can be held culpable because somewhere within that institution abuse could be taking place, there's going to be millions of people in this country that could be culpable at any given time.

Last Edited: 5/20/2019 9:40:05 AM by cbus cat fan

rpbobcat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 10:11:00 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

giacomo wrote:

I debated whether to respond to your post about someone putting themselves in a victim's shoes and saying you'd behave differently and "it's much different when you've actually been the victim of a crime".

Well,I was a potential victim of a sex abuser.
Not quite the same as OSU,but here's my story.

The Spring of my senior year in college I was doing interval training at a local high school track.
There was a guy there talking to several of the guys that were running around the track.

When I took a break he came over to me.
He said he was a retired Marine Corps Drill Instructor.
He said he was trying to "give back" to the community by training athletes for free.

He looked in shape and used all the right language,so I figured why not.

Our training sessions were at a local park,starting around 6:00 in the morning.

The first few workouts were pretty standard.

Then he wanted to start using some,"unorthodox" training techniques.

First one was a modified "squat thrust" where he was sitting in a chair and
your head went between his legs.
Then he said,if he didn't think you were doing the exercise fast enough,he'd close his legs.
That was it.
I told him to go ____ himself and left.

I thought about filing a complaint but realized I didn't know his last name.
Also,never saw him again.

Last Edited: 5/20/2019 10:12:23 AM by rpbobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 10:35:26 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

giacomo wrote:

Sorry you went through that.

I think your response is not dissimilar to many of the athletes in the report. They faced abuse and rather than report, they avoided the doctor altogether.

OhioCatFan
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 10:46:10 AM

I also had a situation when I was about 18, the details of which I don't want to go into, but which required me to physically repel a much bigger man. To this day, I don't know how I did it. Adrenaline must have kicked in big time. I was scared to death. In my frightened condition, I was able to grab a bar and swing my feet at him full force and knock him over and run like hell away from him. If he had overpowered me and did what he was intent on doing, I certainly would have reported the incident to authorities. I would not have waited 30 years!

rpbobcat
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 10:58:20 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Sorry you went through that.

I think your response is not dissimilar to many of the athletes in the report. They faced abuse and rather than report, they avoided the doctor altogether.

I just want to be clear.
The only reason I didn't file a complaint was that I didn't know the guy's last name and never saw him at the school again.

Last Edited: 5/20/2019 11:13:43 AM by rpbobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT: tOSU Could Be in Deep Doo-Doo

Posted: 5/20/2019 11:35:01 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Sorry you went through that.

I think your response is not dissimilar to many of the athletes in the report. They faced abuse and rather than report, they avoided the doctor altogether.

I just want to be clear.
The only reason I didn't file a complaint was that I didn't know the guy's last name and never saw him at the school again.

Do you need a last name to tell the police/school that somebody attempted to sexually abuse you? Respectfully, your example of how you definitely acted differently ended with the exact same result as the victims you acted differently from.

Taking the steps to report an abuser, particularly ones who are in a position of power, takes an unbelievable amount of effort and emotional energy. Like I said, it's super easy to say you'd have done things differently, but in your own case you didn't report somebody because you didn't have his last name.

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