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Topic: MAC Records 2014-present

Topic: MAC Records 2014-present

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GraffZ06
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
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MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/8/2018 7:20:34 PM

Edit - This spans Saul Phillips 5 year tenure as HC at OU.

For comparisons sake, full disclosure (and pure curiosity on my part) I went ahead and compiled the records for the rest of the MAC over the same 5 year span from the 2014-15 season to present 2018-19 season.

Obviously different teams. Some different coaches. Not sure it's the end-all be-all of anything, but thought it was worth posting just the same and should be kept separate from the other discussions.

Without further ado -

* Updated As of 3/10/19 after MAC Regular Season

--------------------------------------
Overall Records:
1. Buffalo: 115-52 (.689)
2. Toledo: 102-62 (.622)
3. Akron: 104-65 (.615)
4. Kent St: 103-65 (.613)
5. Central Michigan: 98-66 (.598)
6. Eastern Michigan: 92-75 (.551)
7. Bowling Green: 86-76 (.531)
8. Ohio: 81-76 (.516)
9. Ball St: 83-79 (.512)
10. Northern Illinois: 78-81 (.491)
11. Western Michigan: 74-87 (.460)
12. Miami: 68-94 (.420)

--------------------------------------
MAC Regular Season:
1. Buffalo: 64-26 (.711)
2. Toledo: 54-36 (.600)
3. Kent St: 52-38 (.578)
4. Akron: 50-40 (.556)
5. Central Michigan: 45-45 (.500)
6. Eastern Michigan: 44-46 (.489)
7. Bowling Green: 42-48 (.467)
8. Ohio: 40-50 (.444)
9. Ball St: 39-51 (.433)
9. Western Michigan: 39-51 (.433)
11. Northern Illinois: 38-52 (.422)
12. Miami: 33-57 (.367)

--------------------------------------
MAC Tournament:
1. Buffalo: 8-1 (.889)
2. Akron: 8-4 (.667)
2. Kent St: 6-3 (.667)
4. Eastern Michigan: 5-4 (.556)
5. Toledo: 4-4 (.500)
6. Bowling Green: 3-4 (.429)
7. Miami: 2-4 (.333)
7. Western Michigan: 2-4 (.333)
7. Ohio: 2-4 (.333)
7. Central Michigan: 2-4 (.333)
11. Ball St: 1-4 (.200)
11. Northern Illinois: 1-4 (.200)

--------------------------------------
MAC Totals: (Regular+Tournament)
* In my opinion the best measure of "success". It's apples-to-apples including post-season results

1. Buffalo: 72-27 (.727)
2. Toledo: 58-40 (.592)
3. Kent St: 58-41 (.586)
4. Akron: 58-44 (.569)
5. Eastern Michigan: 49-50 (.495)
6. Central Michigan: 47-49 (.490)
7. Bowling Green: 45-52 (.464)
8. Ohio: 42-54 (.438)
9. Western Michigan: 41-55 (.427)
10. Ball St: 40-55 (.421)
11. Northern Illinois: 39-56 (.411)
12. Miami: 35-61 (.365)

Last Edited: 3/10/2019 3:31:55 PM by GraffZ06

FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/8/2018 8:24:59 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

I posted in the Offseason 2018 thread about SP's record in his 4 years so far at OU.

For comparisons sake, full disclosure (and pure curiosity on my part) I went ahead and compiled the records for the rest of the MAC over the same 4 year span from the 2014-15 season to present 2017-18 season.

Obviously different teams. Some different coaches. Not sure it's the end-all be-all of anything, but thought it was worth posting just the same and should be kept separate from the other discussions.

Without further ado -

--------------------------------------
Overall Records:
1. Akron: 88-49 (.642)
2. Buffalo: 84-48 (.636)
3. Kent St: 81-55 (.596)
4. Toledo: 75-55 (.577)
4. Central Michigan: 75-55 (.577)
6. Eastern Michigan: 75-57 (.568)
7. Ohio: 67-60 (.528)
8. Ball St: 68-63 (.519)
9. Western Michigan: 66-64 (.508)
10. Bowling Green: 66-65 (.504)
11. Northern Illinois: 63-65 (.492)
12. Miami: 53-76 (.411)

--------------------------------------
MAC Regular Season:
1. Buffalo: 48-24 (.667)
2. Akron: 42-30 (.583)
3. Kent St: 41-31 (.569)
3. Toledo: 41-31 (.569)
5. Western Michigan: 37-35 (.514)
6. Central Michigan: 35-37 (.486)
6. Eastern Michigan: 35-37 (.486)
8. Ohio: 34-38 (.472)
9. Ball St: 33-39 (.458)
10. Bowling Green: 30-42 (.417)
10. Northern Illinois: 30-42 (.417)
12. Miami: 26-46 (.361)

--------------------------------------
MAC Tournament: (as of 7PM 3/8/18 - will update as tournament progresses)
1. Buffalo: 6-1 (.857)
2. Kent St: 6-2 (.750)
3. Akron: 8-3 (.727)
4. Eastern Michigan: 4-3 (.571)
5. Bowling Green: 3-4 (.429)
6. Toledo: 2-3 (.400)
6. Miami: 2-3 (.400)
8. Western Michigan: 2-4 (.333)
8. Ohio: 2-4 (.333)
8. Central Michigan: 2-4 (.333)
11. Ball St: 1-4 (.200)
11. Northern Illinois: 1-4 (.200)

--------------------------------------
MAC Totals: (Regular+Tournament - as of 7PM 3/8/18 - will update)
* In my opinion the best measure of "success". It's apples-to-apples including post-season results

1. Buffalo: 54-25 (.684)
2. Akron: 50-33 (.602)
3. Kent St: 47-33 (.588)
4. Toledo: 43-34 (.558)
5. Western Michigan: 39-39 (.500)
6. Eastern Michigan: 39-40 (.494)
7. Central Michigan: 37-41 (.474)
8. Ohio: 36-42 (.462)
9. Ball St: 34-43 (.442)
10. Bowling Green: 33-46 (.418)
11. Northern Illinois: 31-46 (.403)
12. Miami: 28-49 (.364)

Alarming numbers to say the least. And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul Should we not expect better from the league's highest paid coach? You better believe it. #BelowAverageNumbers #DemandBetterAtOHIO #12Months

Last Edited: 3/8/2018 8:29:25 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

shabamon
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Location: Cincinnati
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/8/2018 8:38:47 PM

Why do you write in hashtags when this site is not hashtag-enabled?

bornacatfan
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/8/2018 9:17:40 PM

FearLeon wrote:

\
And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul #DemandBetter*FROMFANS*AtOhio

Find me cries to that effect. You may find a post or so that talks about extension but I have not seen vociferous "cries to Extend" that you seem to be painting. Inconvenient reality but that is what it is.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Broomball @ Midnight!
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/9/2018 12:05:29 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

\
And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul #DemandBetter*FROMFANS*AtOhio

Impressive numbers above...

From afar in Florida.. this program looks dead. Does it look better close up?

What it is... is overpriced incompetence at coaching. I'm not hearing cries of extension either, but worse indifference. What makes this guy worth keeping? Speak up... Club Saul!

It's year 4. Is he recruiting 8th graders we have to wait for?

He's killing the Convo. Students should be getting paid $20 to watch this team not paying.

Who's next? That is the important question that needs to be answered. Is the new OU President all in?

Apparently Saul is going to get to coach a 5th season (the Jerry Faust rule) with a well earned fork already in him. There are better coaches in the ASUN and the ASUN sucks. FYI.. 20 wins in the MAC isn't much. Eastern Michigan lost at North Florida on it's way to 20+ wins.

This failed hire makes it harder to attract the next guy... let's totally crash the ship and then try and find the guy to rebuild it. Meanwhile, the rest of the MAC is leaving us behind and not paying as much.

What did Groce (without head coaching experience) do in 4 years?

If Saul was the right hire, we'd be worried he was about to leave for a bigger job.

You just got lesson number one: don't think; it can only hurt the ball club. - Crash Davis (1988)

BS Ohio '88 - MA Florida '92 - PhD Florida '10

GraffZ06
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Location: Dayton, OH
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/9/2018 12:23:10 AM

David Deeley '88 wrote:

What did Groce (without head coaching experience) do in 4 years?

Ask and ye shall receive.

In his 4 years in Athens, John Groce (to compare to the above #s)

Overall record: 85-56 (.603)
MAC Regular Season: 34-30 (.531)
MAC Tournament: 9-2 (.818)
MAC Total: 43-32 (.573)

GoCats105
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Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 7,063

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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/9/2018 8:04:14 AM

David Deeley '88 wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

\
And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul #DemandBetter*FROMFANS*AtOhio

This failed hire makes it harder to attract the next guy... let's totally crash the ship and then try and find the guy to rebuild it. Meanwhile, the rest of the MAC is leaving us behind and not paying as much.

No it doesn't. It's still the best job in the MAC. Best arena, best support, best campus. If the job opens up we'll have plenty of qualified suitors.

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,340

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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/9/2018 8:52:58 AM

shabamon wrote:

Why do you write in hashtags when this site is not hashtag-enabled?

Thank you. I'd love to hear the answer to this.

And the need for this when quoting a post:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/9/2018 8:54:50 AM

David Deeley '88 wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

\
And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul #DemandBetter*FROMFANS*AtOhio

Welcome to the board Dave, unless...did FearLeon make a second user ID?

OU_Country
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Post Count: 8,340

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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/9/2018 8:57:31 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

\
And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul #DemandBetter*FROMFANS*AtOhio

I'm probably one of his biggest supporters on here, and the ONLY reason I would call for an extension is because I presume recruiting would be pretty damn tough sitting on 10-12 months to go under contract. Is that actually the case?

Dexcat
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Post Count: 111

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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/9/2018 9:27:42 AM

I think those numbers can be skewed, right? 2 Good seasons with lackluster finishes and two bad seasons, one not really under his control.

There are things that I dislike about Saul's coaching. His waiting on to use TOs on timeouts to stop momentum and calm players down. His lack of contingency plans when recruiting which is probably harder than I imagine it at a small school.

There are things I like though too. Seeing players like Gollon really develop well over 2.5 seasons is amazing. When he gets his offense to flow like I believe he envisions it does feel unstoppable.

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/10/2018 11:33:15 PM

Dexcat wrote:

11-7,with a trip to the MAC Semi finals
= Lackluster finishes?

allen
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 12:00:27 AM

OU_Country wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

\
And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul #DemandBetter*FROMFANS*AtOhio

We don�t beat people out for recruits. We are pretty much their only offer.we always say we beat people out but most of the guys don�t have standing offers when they commit. If I as a recruit have an offer this summer from Illinois state and then they get a commit and I get an offer from Ohio in the fall, Ohio did not beat anybody out for me. The extension would matter if we were bringing in top notch recruits not future redshirts. The bottom line here is that we would still get the same recruits. If our three recruits decommitted today, they would not get a better offer.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

SBH
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 9:35:17 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

David Deeley '88 wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

\
And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul #DemandBetter*FROMFANS*AtOhio

No it doesn't. It's still the best job in the MAC. Best arena, best support, best campus. If the job opens up we'll have plenty of qualified suitors.

Ohio being the �best job in the MAC� might make you feel better but it�s a myth.

bornacatfan
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 10:21:41 AM

SBH wrote:

Ohio being the �best job in the MAC� might make you feel better but it�s a myth.

Depends on who you ask. Since you think it's a myth, which one do you prefer?

SBH
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 10:40:19 AM

We obviously are loyal to our alma mater and love Athens and the campus. But who's to say that these characteristics are what today's top high school athletes are looking for?

From a coach's perspective, I'm guessing the "best job" is the job that offers the best opportunity to quickly build a "dominant" program and, unfortunately, move on to a new, better paying opportunity.

Given these criteria, I would rank Toledo and Buffalo clearly ahead of us. If Akron were ever to find the money to build an arena (which they won't), they'd jump ahead too.

Toledo and Buffalo have decent facilities and are located in urban areas with better media exposure. My guess is that we are more aligned with BSU, or "Balls" as you prefer, which has a nice facility and a decent heritage. On the academic side, our coaches are saddled with higher admissions standards than the staffs at some MAC schools, including Akron, Toledo, EMU, WMU, CMU, and Kent.

As for Ohio having the largest BB budget and highest salary, I believe both support my thesis - we need to spend more to attract the talent we want/need.

Last Edited: 3/11/2018 10:41:41 AM by SBH

bornacatfan
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 11:48:03 AM

SBH wrote:

Fair analysis. THe media is probably a bigger draw than almost anything else but Toledo gets 3rd page coverage to the Headliner up there to $tate. Everytime I buy the Blade I have to turn off the front page to get to MAC coverage. The new Savage is nice but getting there through the town is a turn off. I remember talking to Groce about X saying that he wished he had a helicopter to get the recruits to campus because there was no good way to get there without going through a bad neighborhood.

For the record, I started using Balls, BUGS, theTerd and such to conform to nomenclature used here on BA when I first came. Once I started typing it regularly it just seemed easier. Since you find it offensive or juvenile... Growing up in the area it has always been BallState or BallU as in one word run together.

Last Edited: 3/11/2018 11:50:40 AM by bornacatfan

OU_Country
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 12:32:54 PM

allen wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

bornacatfan wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

\
And yet you still hear cries on this board to #ExtendSaul #DemandBetter*FROMFANS*AtOhio

That statement is partly false. There was plenty of competition for Kirk, Butler, Vanden Plas, Taylor and Block.

There were fewer offers, oddly, for Dartis and Carter.

As for our three incoming players, what source (besides your own opinion) tells you they couldn't get a better or equal offer to Ohio?

LuckySparrow
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 12:59:15 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Dexcat wrote:

11-7,with a trip to the MAC Semi finals
= Lackluster finishes?

Uh...yeah, that is a lackluster finish. Turned down a postseason invite as well.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 1:12:25 PM

LuckySparrow wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Dexcat wrote:

11-7,with a trip to the MAC Semi finals
= Lackluster finishes?

Uh...yeah, that is a lackluster finish. Turned down a postseason invite as well.

It was actually a very strong finish if you were paying attention. I know some of you are immune to facts but we had a lull in the weeks following Campbell's injury and came back very strong. The 11-7 2-seed last year, was a strong finish and a great coaching job.

Also, some of you that think MAC rosters should just be stacked top to bottom haven't apparently watched MAC basketball in the last 30 years or so. Have you even watched the NBA? Their 12th men don't see the floor either. Why is an NBA roster not stacked with championship level talent all the way to the end of the bench? Please, lay off the drugs.

bornacatfan
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 3:29:02 PM

allen wrote:

allen
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 9:26:15 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

allen wrote:

Besides Kirk, we outrecruited nobody. That�s ok, if the guys perform. If they don�t, then Houston we have a problem. I here people talk about how good Gollon is, that is all that you see is our players. You got kids like Marion Jackson that can go, that we didn�t even sniff.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Location: Cincinnati
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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 10:38:49 PM

allen wrote:

BVP had a scholarship offer from Memphis.

Also Marreon Jackson was not a heralded recruit. I'm not sure he had any offers besides Toledo. Great job by Coach Kowalczyk to find him, but it kind of goes against your theory of good players needing to have a ton of good offers.

allen
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Post Count: 4,635

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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/11/2018 10:48:17 PM

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

allen wrote:

If you believe the BVP Memphis offer, I have the sun to sell you. Come and get it while it is hot.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,340

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RE: MAC Records 2014-present

Posted: 3/12/2018 8:13:14 AM

allen wrote:

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

allen wrote:

If you believe the BVP Memphis offer, I have the sun to sell you. Come and get it while it is hot.

If you DON'T believe it, then you're discrediting at least two sites who essentially make their living on basketball recruiting. Forgive me if I believe verbal commits fact based website over your opinions.

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