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Topic:  PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:

Topic:  PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
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Chicken George
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  Message Not Read  PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/2/2018 11:25:37 PM 

PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
 
 
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Hate to make light of someone's job status, then again this is a message board, that's the topic most likely to be discussed this year and the season exhibition season begins in less than 24 hours.

Not sure my categories are any good (actually I know they're not), but where's the bar for 2018-19 to warrant an extension.
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/2/2018 11:29:29 PM 
I'd say 20 wins merits a one year extension. Four year extension either 25 wins, MAC regular season title or NCAA tourney.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/2/2018 11:29:59 PM 
To me, it's at least top 4 and probably a trip to the finals. There has to be a significant change in the overall look and feel of what we've seen on the court. And probably an OOC upset or two in there.

Right now, I'd put odds at 75-80% that Saul is out. He has a long way to go in earning an extension.
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/3/2018 11:23:05 AM 
I voted for the winning of an NCAA Tournament game, but I just don't see how Saul and company can get this team to crack the top four in this league, let alone make it to the MAC Tournament final and win. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see all of that happen and so much more, but Saul just hasn't recruited well enough or showed how "Saul Ball" (whatever that really is at the end of the day) managed to elevate the play of even ordinary players. The excuses are over. Saul was given plenty of time to establish his mark on this program, and what I have seen is only the diminishing of what has almost always been a competitive program in the MAC. Saul will make a great Division II Coach, and I wish him well.
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/3/2018 12:15:29 PM 
Make the NCAA tournament = extend him.
Make the MAC finals but lose with a team that won 20-25+ games and finished top 3 in the MAC = give him one more year.
Make the MAC finals but lose with a team that was mediocre or bad but got "hot" at the right time = probably move on.
Anything less = he gone.


Notice the trend. March. March. March. March. It's literally all that matters. MAC finals or bust.
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bn9
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/3/2018 1:15:14 PM 
Just for the record, I know I am not in the majority of the vocal fans on this board, I like Saul, I think he is a good coach. I really like the way his team plays when everyone is healthy. Two years ago, before Tony got hurt, we were playing beautiful basketball and I thought we had turned the corner. I think that Carter and Kirk are going to be beasts this year and for the next three. I think we finish in the top three in the East, make at least the MAC Semi-Finals and Saul is extended.

Feel free to give me all the evidence about how wrong I am and how much more you know about everything than me, I'm listening.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/3/2018 2:26:59 PM 
bn9 wrote:
Just for the record, I know I am not in the majority of the vocal fans on this board, I like Saul, I think he is a good coach. I really like the way his team plays when everyone is healthy. Two years ago, before Tony got hurt, we were playing beautiful basketball and I thought we had turned the corner. I think that Carter and Kirk are going to be beasts this year and for the next three. I think we finish in the top three in the East, make at least the MAC Semi-Finals and Saul is extended.

Feel free to give me all the evidence about how wrong I am and how much more you know about everything than me, I'm listening.


I didn't vote in the poll. Not to be argumentative or contentious (and I think Kirk and Carter are good proven players), but when somebody says "beast" about a college basketball, people usually think of guys like Nazreon Reid and Zion Williamson. But I understand how much quicker and easier it is to say "beast" than it is to say "good solid proven basketball player."
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/4/2018 9:35:23 AM 
greencat wrote:
bn9 wrote:
Just for the record, I know I am not in the majority of the vocal fans on this board, I like Saul, I think he is a good coach. I really like the way his team plays when everyone is healthy. Two years ago, before Tony got hurt, we were playing beautiful basketball and I thought we had turned the corner. I think that Carter and Kirk are going to be beasts this year and for the next three. I think we finish in the top three in the East, make at least the MAC Semi-Finals and Saul is extended.

Feel free to give me all the evidence about how wrong I am and how much more you know about everything than me, I'm listening.


I didn't vote in the poll. Not to be argumentative or contentious (and I think Kirk and Carter are good proven players), but when somebody says "beast" about a college basketball, people usually think of guys like Nazreon Reid and Zion Williamson. But I understand how much quicker and easier it is to say "beast" than it is to say "good solid proven basketball player."





Your likely vote is well known in this space: "Nothing, my mind is made up". 😎
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/4/2018 9:42:17 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Make the NCAA tournament = extend him.
Make the MAC finals but lose with a team that won 20-25+ games and finished top 3 in the MAC = give him one more year.
Make the MAC finals but lose with a team that was mediocre or bad but got "hot" at the right time = probably move on.
Anything less = he gone.


Notice the trend. March. March. March. March. It's literally all that matters. MAC finals or bust.


When it comes to Mid-major basketball, it's quite unfortunate that all that matters is March, but for many fans, I believe that you're right.

Whether or not that is what matters in the eyes of the AD and OU to extend him, I don't know. I like the guy a lot, and think that given a full healthy team that they'll be a top 3-4 team in the conference, and probably would have already been to the tournament once. That said, I'm not optimistic that he'll be here next season.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/4/2018 9:45:44 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
I'd say 20 wins merits a one year extension. Four year extension either 25 wins, MAC regular season title or NCAA tourney.


I could be wrong here, but I don't see anyone getting, or accepting a one year extension in a case like this one. I would guess it'll be multiple years, or not at all.
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berniebobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/4/2018 11:11:14 AM 
It seems to me that the fate of this year’s team and it’s coach depend on many important variables. Injuries have clearly been a problem the last 2 years. However maybe just as important is the emergence of players not currently under discussion. Both Lassiter and Gollon stepped up last season. The year before Carter pretty much came out of nowhere. At this point we have more “potential” stars than in past years. Barring injuries (that’s a biggie) we could be surprisingly good. At least we have the bodies and skills to cover the various positions. Our lack of depth underneath last year pretty much doomed us to mediocrity.
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/4/2018 11:55:33 AM 
OU_Country wrote:


I could be wrong here, but I don't see anyone getting, or accepting a one year extension in a case like this one. I would guess it'll be multiple years, or not at all.


Agree. One year extension is going to be tough for recruiting.

Without something that makes us go "wow", I think Saul will be gone. I like him and his family - but at the end, it just comes down to performance.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/4/2018 8:44:36 PM 
Has to win the MAC Tournament for extension. It's year number five. Hunter...O'Shea...Groce....all won MAC Tourney in first five years. JC gets an incomplete for leaving early. The administration and fanbase should expect this program to go to the Big Dance at least once every five years...at the bare minimum.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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oubobcatjohn
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/4/2018 10:48:24 PM 
I would extend him now. I think he has proven with a healthy roster he can win. He has had terrible luck with injuries to his best player multiple years. Extend him and show recruits he is here long term.
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RSBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/4/2018 10:54:58 PM 
For me a respectable season (vs "successful" season) will be minimum 18 wins and final 4 MACC tourney - Based on a wide variety of factors that include Saul uncontrollables (injuries etc.), and that gets at least a 1 year extension.

With the team we have TY w/Carter back, but Dartis & Gollon health questionables, and a LOT of good prospects for the next several years - My look is that we could be GREAT Next year. So why screw that opportunity up and risk multiple defections w/coaching change end of this year (e.g. Carter, Kirk, or a very promising looking Vander Plas - Why Stay if coach is fired?) - And then we all wait several more years for someone to rebuild off of that....?

Last Edited: 11/4/2018 10:59:32 PM by RSBobcat

RS Bobcat

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/5/2018 7:40:08 AM 
I chose "other" simply because I don't think winning the MAC Tournament is the be-all, end-all just quite yet. Like if they somehow win 25+ games, make it to the championship but then don't win it, I don't think you can let that go. You'd have a mass exodus of a lot of experience and talent if SP and Co. were let go in that scenario, then Ohio would truly be in the gutter.

Last Edited: 11/5/2018 7:40:23 AM by GoCats105
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/5/2018 8:33:22 AM 
catfan28 wrote:


Agree. One year extension is going to be tough for recruiting.

Without something that makes us go "wow", I think Saul will be gone. I like him and his family - but at the end, it just comes down to performance.


I fully agree with this sentiment. He's a great person with an exceptional family, but he has to at least be playing on Saturday in Cleveland or he's gone. He didn't get hired to go .472 in the MAC.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/5/2018 10:30:50 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
I chose "other" simply because I don't think winning the MAC Tournament is the be-all, end-all just quite yet. Like if they somehow win 25+ games, make it to the championship but then don't win it, I don't think you can let that go. You'd have a mass exodus of a lot of experience and talent if SP and Co. were let go in that scenario, then Ohio would truly be in the gutter.


This is something for Schaus and the university to consider. Assuming it's the goal to be one of the best MAC Basketball programs, they'd probably have to spend even more on a contract to make sure they had a home run hire if they let go of Saul after a pretty good year. I don't envy anyone having to make that kind of decision.

I'm in disagreement of the premise that getting to Saturday in Cleveland or winning on Saturday night in Cleveland is the only way this staff is retained. Only because that doesn't encompass everything else that happened from November through the MAC Semi-finals.
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berniebobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/5/2018 6:32:05 PM 
For a little perspective, here is John Wooden's record before going on his multi-title run beginning in 1964. I'm sure UCLA fans are happy that they didn't bounce him out after the mediocre years of 1951 through 54. It takes time to build a winning program, as well as some luck.


Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Indiana State Sycamores (Indiana Intercollegiate Conference) (1946–1948)
1946–47 Indiana State 17–8 5–2 1st NAIA invitation declined
1947–48 Indiana State 27–7 7–0 1st NAIA Runner-up
Indiana State: 44–15 (.746) 12–2 (.857)
UCLA Bruins[29] (Pacific Coast Conference) (1948–1959)
1948–49 UCLA 22–7 10–2 1st (South)
1949–50 UCLA 24–7 10–2 1st (South) NCAA Regional Fourth Place
1950–51 UCLA 19–10 9–4 T–1st (South)
1951–52 UCLA 19–12 8–4 1st (South) NCAA Regional Fourth Place
1952–53 UCLA 16–8 6–6 3rd (South)
1953–54 UCLA 18–7 7–5 2nd (South)
1954–55 UCLA 21–5 11–1 1st (South)
1955–56 UCLA 22–6 16–0 1st NCAA Regional Third Place
1956–57 UCLA 22–4 13–3 T–2nd
1957–58 UCLA 16–10 10–6 3rd
1958–59 UCLA 16–9 10–6 T–3rd
UCLA Bruins[29] (Pacific-8 Conference) (1959–1975)
1959–60 UCLA 14–12 7–5 2nd
1960–61 UCLA 18–8 7–5 2nd
1961–62 UCLA 18–11 10–2 1st NCAA University Division Fourth Place
1962–63 UCLA 20–9 8–5 T–1st NCAA University Division Regional Fourth Place

205 wins 77 losses WP 72.7%
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LuckySparrow
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/5/2018 6:52:07 PM 
I voted for Just Don't Suck.

I'm not expecting much out of this season, unfortunately. The injuries scare me. If we finish in the upper half of the MAC I'll be satisfied. I would pretty much extend him regardless of what happens unless a surefire option presents itself.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/6/2018 9:46:22 AM 
This will be a very difficult year for Saul for the following reasons;
1) Daris probably out or at best a minor contributor
2) 2 other players were injured last year, Carter & VanderPlas
3) 2 hold overs that could be injured, Gallon & Block
4) 7 new players
The end result will make it difficult for Saul to have at least a winning season and therefor receive an extension.
Schauss also knows that with only 1 commit for next year there is probably not much risk with players leaving due to a coaching change.
We will be fortunate to be a .500 team.



GO BOBCATS
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/6/2018 10:03:09 AM 
berniebobcat wrote:
For a little perspective, here is John Wooden's record before going on his multi-title run beginning in 1964. I'm sure UCLA fans are happy that they didn't bounce him out after the mediocre years of 1951 through 54. It takes time to build a winning program, as well as some luck.




You're really stretching and cherry picking there. The guy had two first-place years before that run of "mediocrity" that included a year with an NCAA Tournament.

If SP had started his tenure by winning the MAC twice in a row (which Wooden did at UCLA), we would not be having this discussion at all. Sadly, he's well below .500 in MAC play, which is why he's in a lame-duck year.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/6/2018 10:44:32 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
berniebobcat wrote:
For a little perspective, here is John Wooden's record before going on his multi-title run beginning in 1964. I'm sure UCLA fans are happy that they didn't bounce him out after the mediocre years of 1951 through 54. It takes time to build a winning program, as well as some luck.




You're really stretching and cherry picking there. The guy had two first-place years before that run of "mediocrity" that included a year with an NCAA Tournament.

If SP had started his tenure by winning the MAC twice in a row (which Wooden did at UCLA), we would not be having this discussion at all. Sadly, he's well below .500 in MAC play, which is why he's in a lame-duck year.


Though I don't have the record right in front of me, but from my ever fallible memory I believe that Jim Snyder's first few years weren't exactly stellar either. I think Saul has great potential and has become a better coach each year (not necessarily a better record, due to factors beyond his control). The way Saul relates to players reminds me very much of Snyder. I had a former player tell me that Saul is a "player's coach." I like that. I'd stick with him several more years, and then make an assessment. In essence, I agree with berniebobcat (aka the Wizard of San Luis Obispo) and an earlier post by bn9.

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/6/2018 11:34:13 AM 
berniebobcat wrote:
For a little perspective, here is John Wooden's record before going on his multi-title run beginning in 1964. I'm sure UCLA fans are happy that they didn't bounce him out after the mediocre years of 1951 through 54. It takes time to build a winning program, as well as some luck.


Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Indiana State Sycamores (Indiana Intercollegiate Conference) (1946–1948)
1946–47 Indiana State 17–8 5–2 1st NAIA invitation declined
1947–48 Indiana State 27–7 7–0 1st NAIA Runner-up
Indiana State: 44–15 (.746) 12–2 (.857)
UCLA Bruins[29] (Pacific Coast Conference) (1948–1959)
1948–49 UCLA 22–7 10–2 1st (South)
1949–50 UCLA 24–7 10–2 1st (South) NCAA Regional Fourth Place
1950–51 UCLA 19–10 9–4 T–1st (South)
1951–52 UCLA 19–12 8–4 1st (South) NCAA Regional Fourth Place
1952–53 UCLA 16–8 6–6 3rd (South)
1953–54 UCLA 18–7 7–5 2nd (South)
1954–55 UCLA 21–5 11–1 1st (South)
1955–56 UCLA 22–6 16–0 1st NCAA Regional Third Place
1956–57 UCLA 22–4 13–3 T–2nd
1957–58 UCLA 16–10 10–6 3rd
1958–59 UCLA 16–9 10–6 T–3rd
UCLA Bruins[29] (Pacific-8 Conference) (1959–1975)
1959–60 UCLA 14–12 7–5 2nd
1960–61 UCLA 18–8 7–5 2nd
1961–62 UCLA 18–11 10–2 1st NCAA University Division Fourth Place
1962–63 UCLA 20–9 8–5 T–1st NCAA University Division Regional Fourth Place

205 wins 77 losses WP 72.7%


My god...please tell me I did not just see a John Wooden vs Saul Phillips comparison through first five years??? I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this.

Last Edited: 11/6/2018 11:35:28 AM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: PreSeason Fan Poll: Which Best Defines a Successful Season and Desiring to Re-elect the current administration for 4 more years:
   Posted: 11/6/2018 12:04:12 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
berniebobcat wrote:
For a little perspective, here is John Wooden's record before going on his multi-title run beginning in 1964. I'm sure UCLA fans are happy that they didn't bounce him out after the mediocre years of 1951 through 54. It takes time to build a winning program, as well as some luck.


Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Indiana State Sycamores (Indiana Intercollegiate Conference) (1946–1948)
1946–47 Indiana State 17–8 5–2 1st NAIA invitation declined
1947–48 Indiana State 27–7 7–0 1st NAIA Runner-up
Indiana State: 44–15 (.746) 12–2 (.857)
UCLA Bruins[29] (Pacific Coast Conference) (1948–1959)
1948–49 UCLA 22–7 10–2 1st (South)
1949–50 UCLA 24–7 10–2 1st (South) NCAA Regional Fourth Place
1950–51 UCLA 19–10 9–4 T–1st (South)
1951–52 UCLA 19–12 8–4 1st (South) NCAA Regional Fourth Place
1952–53 UCLA 16–8 6–6 3rd (South)
1953–54 UCLA 18–7 7–5 2nd (South)
1954–55 UCLA 21–5 11–1 1st (South)
1955–56 UCLA 22–6 16–0 1st NCAA Regional Third Place
1956–57 UCLA 22–4 13–3 T–2nd
1957–58 UCLA 16–10 10–6 3rd
1958–59 UCLA 16–9 10–6 T–3rd
UCLA Bruins[29] (Pacific-8 Conference) (1959–1975)
1959–60 UCLA 14–12 7–5 2nd
1960–61 UCLA 18–8 7–5 2nd
1961–62 UCLA 18–11 10–2 1st NCAA University Division Fourth Place
1962–63 UCLA 20–9 8–5 T–1st NCAA University Division Regional Fourth Place

205 wins 77 losses WP 72.7%


My god...please tell me I did not just see a John Wooden vs Saul Phillips comparison through first five years??? I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this.


yes ... because college basketball in the 40's and 50's is comparable. Ha! What a stretch.

I think most of these points have been made ... but Saul is a lame duck.

Win ... and he leaves for a "bigger & better" job

Lose ... and he's gone.

It's a farewell tour for him. Ohio will not give a one-year extension that will keep program in limbo another year.

My guess is to keep you fingers crossed and hope for some magic this year ... a memorable run to a MAC title and the NCAAs would be a nice parting gift for Saul and the fans.

After that ... I have a feeling we're in for a bumpy ride. Don't think we'll see them shell out nearly $700k for a new coach.

Maybe Geno Ford is wiling to come back for cheap, ha!

The irony is Ohio set the standard by paying Jim Christian and Saul big bucks (for MAC standards) .... and now they're probably not willing to commit that kind of money to the position.

Very tenuous time for Ohio athletics (at least hoops/football) with Saul most likely out after 2018-19 and Frank's tenure winding down in the next few years. Might be some lean years if they're not willing to financially commit like they currently do or to keep up with the growing costs of college football/basketball.
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