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Topic:  The Majors Students Choose

Topic:  The Majors Students Choose
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DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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  Message Not Read  The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 11:04:00 AM 
I thought this article from 538 was interesting and is pertinent to discussions we've had here about what people major in and why they choose to do so:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/students-at-most-col... /

Key quote for me:

"But while focusing on more practical majors — such as business — may seem like the best route in the short term, majoring in the humanities may be more beneficial in the long term. In the first years after graduation, social sciences and humanities majors earn less than people who have pre-professional degrees, but at peak earning ages, liberal arts majors surpass people in pre-professional degrees, in part because they are more likely to have graduate degrees."

Last Edited: 8/15/2017 11:04:28 AM by DelBobcat

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 12:06:50 PM 
I think it's telling that the universities with the most prestigious MBA programs don't allow undergraduate business majors. Wharton is an exception, but there is no undergraduate business major at Harvard, Yale, Chicago, MIT, Dartmouth or Stanford.

I'll add one thing. Contrary to some rhetoric, it's not liberal arts majors from good universities that are driving the student loan crisis. It's being driven by masses of students taking out loans to go to for-profit schools and community colleges.

Last Edited: 8/15/2017 12:20:54 PM by OUPride
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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 12:38:43 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
I thought this article from 538 was interesting and is pertinent to discussions we've had here about what people major in and why they choose to do so:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/students-at-most-col... /

Key quote for me:

"But while focusing on more practical majors — such as business — may seem like the best route in the short term, majoring in the humanities may be more beneficial in the long term. In the first years after graduation, social sciences and humanities majors earn less than people who have pre-professional degrees, but at peak earning ages, liberal arts majors surpass people in pre-professional degrees, in part because they are more likely to have graduate degrees."


The article talks about certain Liberal Arts majors out earning people with pre-professional degrees in peak earning years.
But it uses people with graduate degrees like an MBA or becoming a lawyer as the basis of that conclusion.

It would be interesting to see how people with just an undergraduate degree or even graduate degree in the humanities fare against someone with a pre-professional degree.

I also found it interesting that the prestige of the university affects how an undergraduate degree in humanities is perceived.
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Mike Johnson
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Location: North Canton, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 1:04:29 PM 
OUPride wrote:
I think it's telling that the universities with the most prestigious MBA programs don't allow undergraduate business majors. Wharton is an exception, but there is no undergraduate business major at Harvard, Yale, Chicago, MIT, Dartmouth or Stanford.

I'll add one thing. Contrary to some rhetoric, it's not liberal arts majors from good universities that are driving the student loan crisis. It's being driven by masses of students taking out loans to go to for-profit schools and community colleges.


And Stanford Graduate School of Business prefers applicants who have some work experience under their belts.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 574

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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 1:13:47 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
I thought this article from 538 was interesting and is pertinent to discussions we've had here about what people major in and why they choose to do so:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/students-at-most-col... /

Key quote for me:

"But while focusing on more practical majors — such as business — may seem like the best route in the short term, majoring in the humanities may be more beneficial in the long term. In the first years after graduation, social sciences and humanities majors earn less than people who have pre-professional degrees, but at peak earning ages, liberal arts majors surpass people in pre-professional degrees, in part because they are more likely to have graduate degrees."


The article talks about certain Liberal Arts majors out earning people with pre-professional degrees in peak earning years.
But it uses people with graduate degrees like an MBA or becoming a lawyer as the basis of that conclusion.

It would be interesting to see how people with just an undergraduate degree or even graduate degree in the humanities fare against someone with a pre-professional degree.

I also found it interesting that the prestige of the university affects how an undergraduate degree in humanities is perceived.



Keep in mind that top tier MBA and Law schools don't look highly on undergrad business majors. Their preferred undergraduate majors are engineering and sciences first and social sciences and humanities second. I don't think the study should be negated because History majors might be getting into more elite law and MBA programs than marketing majors.
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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 1:23:26 PM 
OUPride wrote:


I don't think the study should be negated because History majors might be getting into more elite law and MBA programs than marketing majors.


I'm not trying to negate the study.
What I said was that the people referenced in the article as out earning pre-professionals in top earning years,went in a non humanities direction,pursuing an MBA or law degree.
The article didn't provide a comparison to people who stayed in humanities and pre-professionals.

The article also makes it clear that the more prestigious the school where you got your humanities degree,the more respected it is when you try to use it.
That should include getting into an MBA program or law school.
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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 3:18:19 PM 
I think the data analysis in this article is garbage. It draws conclusions first and then selectively looks at the data to support their argument.

A core principle all students who major in Finance learn: "the time value of money"
-A dollar earned today is more valuable than a dollar earned tomorrow, because you can invest the dollar earned today so it earns money for you tomorrow.

A core principle all students who major in Economics learn: "opportunity cost"
-In addition to the financial cost you pay to do something, there is also a hidden cost you're paying by NOT doing something else. (For example, the financial cost of grad school is tuition, the opportunity cost is the money you could've made if you had held a full-time job instead of going to grad school)

Quote:
"But while focusing on more practical majors — such as business — may seem like the best route in the short term, majoring in the humanities may be more beneficial in the long term. In the first years after graduation, social sciences and humanities majors earn less than people who have pre-professional degrees, but at peak earning ages, liberal arts majors surpass people in pre-professional degrees, in part because they are more likely to have graduate degrees."

Reading this quote, the author seems to be looking at the maximum-average earnings on a year-to-year basis. For a meaningful analysis on this subject, I'd like to see the author look at lifetime earnings. Year 1+Year 2+Year 3+Year 4... And when you factor in the additional expense incurred to attend graduate school and then factor in 4 years of lost salary?

...

My undergraduate degree was in Finance. If I went back and got a MBA today, I'd make more money on completion. The salary increase would not justify the lost earnings. If my employer offered to pay for it (executive MBA in addition to work) I'd be more likely to consider it but I'd gain more value from a masters in science for something like Computer Programming, Statistics or Data Analytics.

Quote:
Brad Hershbein, an economist at the W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research, said students who major in business are less likely to want to go to graduate school “not so much because they can’t get in [but] because they are more likely to end up in a job where it is not necessary, which is probably a lot of reasons why people study it in the first place.”

I've seen crazier things happen.

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TWT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,998

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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 8:58:52 PM 
What goes on at the 1st tier universities where almost everyone had an A average in the foreign languages is a realization that it's easier to average a 3.5 needed to get into a quality law school (with good LSAT's of course) than to earn a 3.5 in STEM undergraduate which only PhD caliber students in those fields are doing. They don't see themselves as prize winning scientists but someone entitled to a six figure salary. At the second tier universities the thinking is the four years of undergraduate is an opportunity cost in of itself so its about securing a vocation with the job. At age 30 the person who started working working right out of college is a District Manager of a company making 100,000 a year. The counterpart graduating from the MBA school is making 80,000 a year with very little corporate work experience. If it was Harvard law or Harvard MBA they might be pulling in 175,000 a year but that is the upper 0.1% range. Ninety percent of the time you'll end up doing better with that professional undergraduate degree and building work experience. Grads who are stuck at the 30-40k level at a job feel the most pressure to go back for a MBA or law school.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/15/2017 9:45:03 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
OUPride wrote:


I don't think the study should be negated because History majors might be getting into more elite law and MBA programs than marketing majors.

The article also makes it clear that the more prestigious the school where you got your humanities degree,the more respected it is when you try to use it.
That should include getting into an MBA program or law school.


The LSAT/GMAT score is what allows you to get into the top schools along with a solid GPA. Where you did undergrad isn't as much of factor but you wouldn't be at a third tier school if you were an excellent test taker or ambitious about landing in one of the top graduate programs. Socioeconomics plays a role. A 3.5 HS student from an affluent background ends up with a law degree while one from an impoverished background starts first 2 at a community college and finishes up at a local university to become a nurse. The nurse may make as much money as the grad from the lower tier law school working in a cube.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/16/2017 6:46:09 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:

Socioeconomics plays a role. A 3.5 HS student from an affluent background ends up with a law degree while one from an impoverished background starts first 2 at a community college and finishes up at a local university to become a nurse. The nurse may make as much money as the grad from the lower tier law school working in a cube.



Sorry,but your comment about nurses is,at best,disrespectful.

It sounds like you're not familiar with the requirement's to become a nurse.
You may want to check out the admission/curriculum requirements for O.U.'s School of Nursing.

I think you'll also find that most nurses don't go into it for the money.

I'm married to a nurse and have a niece who just got her BSN.
By the way,neither one was from an "impoverished background".

You couldn't pay me enough to deal with the "crap" (literally and figuratively) they have to deal with every day.

I won't go into details,but my dad got taken to the E.R. this year.If it wasn't for the nursing staff in the E.R.he wouldn't have made it.





Last Edited: 8/16/2017 6:47:41 AM by rpbobcat
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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/16/2017 12:20:09 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:

Socioeconomics plays a role. A 3.5 HS student from an affluent background ends up with a law degree while one from an impoverished background starts first 2 at a community college and finishes up at a local university to become a nurse. The nurse may make as much money as the grad from the lower tier law school working in a cube.



Sorry,but your comment about nurses is,at best,disrespectful.

It sounds like you're not familiar with the requirement's to become a nurse.
You may want to check out the admission/curriculum requirements for O.U.'s School of Nursing.

I think you'll also find that most nurses don't go into it for the money.

I'm married to a nurse and have a niece who just got her BSN.
By the way,neither one was from an "impoverished background".

You couldn't pay me enough to deal with the "crap" (literally and figuratively) they have to deal with every day.

I won't go into details,but my dad got taken to the E.R. this year.If it wasn't for the nursing staff in the E.R.he wouldn't have made it.


Sorry it was a generalization. Nursing Technichian maybe.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Majors Students Choose
   Posted: 8/16/2017 2:31:47 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
OUPride wrote:
I think it's telling that the universities with the most prestigious MBA programs don't allow undergraduate business majors. Wharton is an exception, but there is no undergraduate business major at Harvard, Yale, Chicago, MIT, Dartmouth or Stanford.

I'll add one thing. Contrary to some rhetoric, it's not liberal arts majors from good universities that are driving the student loan crisis. It's being driven by masses of students taking out loans to go to for-profit schools and community colleges.


And Stanford Graduate School of Business prefers applicants who have some work experience under their belts.


I think that's any respectable mba program these days.
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