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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events

Topic: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Topic: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

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TWT
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,998

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Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/1/2016 11:02:21 PM

The rehabilitation of Union Street continues. This is going to be nice to go with the uptown block of union which is getting an extended sidewalk for its businesses.

http://www.athensnews.com/news/local/union-st-bar-seeks-v...

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,561

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/2/2016 9:32:47 AM

I know many are very skeptical to push for more alcohol in Athens, but creating a craft brew district up Union Street from HDL up towards Court is something I think the city should make a focus.

Microbrewery's are different from college bars and could be a significant boost to Athens' economy.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Ohio69
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,020

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/2/2016 9:34:47 AM

Would be a nice addition to that block, along with Thai Paradise.

Some very good people involved in that bar and project. Hope it turns out well for them.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,778

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/2/2016 2:15:31 PM

Don't hol your breath on the city granting these variances. Already been denied once.

TWT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,998

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/10/2016 10:14:19 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Don't hol your breath on the city granting these variances. Already been denied once.

That is true its not easy to make changes uptown. Speaking of changes there are site plans the city is looking at for a hotel on court street. Only 30 rooms and no restaurant but the boutique hotel concept is that you'll go out to the restaurants in the neighborhood. This should do quite well.

http://www.athensnews.com/news/local/panel-discusses-site...

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Ohio69
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,020

Status: Offline

RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/12/2016 9:09:33 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Don't hol your breath on the city granting these variances. Already been denied once.

Well, I wonder if we have any posters who really know the deal but the urban legend I hear about this type of stuff is zoning turns you down (because those folks are against everything) and then you tweak a few things, appeal to some other body, and then get approved.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/12/2016 9:46:32 AM

Rumor has it the developers are planning a tidy donation to the Clinton "Foundation." Ta Da! Problem solved. LOL.

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,150

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/12/2016 10:59:41 AM

Robert Fox wrote:

Rumor has it the developers are planning a tidy donation to the Clinton "Foundation." Ta Da! Problem solved. LOL.

Wikileaks will be picking up the emails on this from the Clinton Foundation servers and the ANews will have an exclusive on it. The Clinton News Network (aka CNN) will ignore the story. ;-)

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/12/2016 11:13:27 AM

Robert Fox wrote:

Rumor has it the developers are planning a tidy donation to the Clinton "Foundation." Ta Da! Problem solved. LOL.

Maybe they'll have Bill give one of those $500,000. speeches from there.
Hey,Mrs Clinton went to Jackio's .
Equal time you know.

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/13/2016 12:47:07 AM

Why does Cat's Den want to become a monastery?

Oh. Nevermind.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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BillyTheCat
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/13/2016 8:42:09 AM

Ohio69 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Don't hol your breath on the city granting these variances. Already been denied once.

New mayor is supposed to be the "business man's" mayor, and all about development.

DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/22/2016 9:00:16 AM

Ohio69 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Don't hol your breath on the city granting these variances. Already been denied once.

Zoning hearing boards are only supposed to grant variances if there is a very clear hardship keeping you from developing the property as the zoning code requires. They should be exceedingly rare. If nothing is getting developed it might be a problem with the code itself and not the body granting variances.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/22/2016 11:12:31 AM

DelBobcat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Don't hol your breath on the city granting these variances. Already been denied once.

I don't know about Ohio,but under the Municipal Land Use Law (MLUL) in New Jersey,Hardship is only one of the justifications for a Zoning Board granting a Use Variance.In fact,in my experience,the Hardship argument is used quite infrequently.That's because in N.J. its very difficult to satisfy the MLUL for a "Hardship".

In New Jersey a Use Variance can be granted if the requirements of the the MLUL such as the "Positive/Negative" criteria are satisfied.

DelBobcat
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/22/2016 12:43:36 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

DelBobcat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Don't hol your breath on the city granting these variances. Already been denied once.

New Jersey is unique in its use of so-called "D" variances. Those are supposed to be exceedingly rare anyway, but municipalities are way more liberal with handing them out than was ever intended.

Ohio and Pennsylvania have more common systems, where variances are only supposed to be granted for hardship. In reality though, many municipalities hand these out pretty frequently too and the definition of "hardship" has been stretched to a breaking point.

But the underlying issue is that microbreweries should probably be allowed on Union and on Court anyway so the zoning code should probably be amended to allow those uses and then the zoning board won't even come into play.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

MedinaCat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Lakewood, OH
Post Count: 741

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/22/2016 2:01:52 PM

Is the "outdoor refreshment area" exemption(aka open container district) reviewed and approved by the zoning board or city council? This is a different issue than the zoning board approving a building used for whatever purposes(brewery in this case.)

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2015/04/bill_to_a...

Last Edited: 8/22/2016 2:02:49 PM by MedinaCat

BillyTheCat
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/22/2016 6:51:35 PM

Bigger issue for the Den is a variance on the number of parking spaces.

DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/23/2016 12:39:08 PM

MedinaCat wrote:

This is just a guess on my part, but I believe that it is city council. They may seek input from the planning commission, but I don't see the zoning board as being a necessary part of the process. It's more likely that the city council would establish the district through passing an ordinance.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 1,135

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/23/2016 12:44:57 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bigger issue for the Den is a variance on the number of parking spaces.

Aw, yes. Going back and reading it I see that it looks like they don't need a use variance after all, just variances for parking and setback. Those parts of the code seem like they could be reanalyzed too. Why a 12 foot setback? No buildings on Court or Union have a setback that large. If anything, there should be a "build-to" line so new buildings maintain the current character of the uptown area. The parking seems heavy-handed too. Most businesses on Court Street wouldn't exist if they had to provide that much parking.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

BillyTheCat
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Post Count: 9,778

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/23/2016 11:31:37 PM

DelBobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bigger issue for the Den is a variance on the number of parking spaces.

Difference is, the court street businesses are all grandfathered due to the footprint of the building. At the Den we are speaking of a total redo and add-on construction, so the zoning commission will be at the front of this. Now, we could talk about the business aspect and friendliness aspect of the city for new business for hours. Personally I welcome this expansion project.

Last Edited: 8/23/2016 11:35:47 PM by BillyTheCat

DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/24/2016 12:34:31 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

DelBobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bigger issue for the Den is a variance on the number of parking spaces.

Absolutely, but if you have a successful uptown area shouldn't your zoning for that area try to push future construction to emulate what already exists? There's no good reason to require a bunch of parking at this location and it just makes it difficult to develop the property.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

BillyTheCat
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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/26/2016 8:21:01 AM

DelBobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

DelBobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bigger issue for the Den is a variance on the number of parking spaces.

Preaching to the choir on this, I agree 110%, however that is not how Athens has historically operated.

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,852

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RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 8/26/2016 3:43:04 PM

The microbrewery movement is fierce.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Sean Gallagher
General User

Member Since: 12/6/2012
Post Count: 134

Status: Offline

RE: Cat's Den to expand and become microbrewery

Posted: 9/23/2016 8:51:26 AM

I wish the Cat's Den owner(s) would reinstate the traditional name Little Ritz. I'm told the name was changed to Cat's Den to honor Dave Sullivan (now deceased) who owned the original Cat's Den at 13 N. Court before it was destroyed by fire in the early 1980's. I understand that's a noble reason to honor someone, but that Little Ritz name was associated with that location for likely 75 years. The Little Ritz went back to the days of serving the workers and patrons of the railroad, the Athens Lumber Company and and the McBee Company, all once in close proximity.

On another note, the lower west end is seeing another change. http://www.athensnews.com/news/local/german-themed-beer-h...

Some of you oldtimers (like me) may remember this location as the site of the "Star Bar" or later the "Roaring 20's" or the "Jamboree", all run by the Abraham family. Primarily "Black Juii", who died in 1983. Its not the same building, but its the same address and location.

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