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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events

Topic: End coming?

Topic: End coming?

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Mike Johnson
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Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
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End coming?

Posted: 5/17/2015 11:29:13 AM

In an article in yesterday's Plain Dealer, the new pres of Akron spoke of aiming to make Akron a great university. He went on to predict that among public universities in Ohio, only three besides Akron - OSU, Cincy, Miami - would survive the next 50 years.

We know that in recent years, small private colleges have been closing at a rate of 8 annually. It also seems likely that some weaker state-assisted schools will fail, doomed by factors including ever-increasing tuitions and fees and more online educational opportunities.

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ozarkcat
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Member Since: 7/20/2006
Location: Missouri
Post Count: 79

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/17/2015 1:37:33 PM

Wow, this guy really likes to stir the pot. I would think the presidents of several universities (ohio, kent state, toledo, bg, etc.) will have comments to make on this Akron is really the weaker school and faces a lot more problems. Based on perception alone it along with BG and Youngstown face tough sledding. Ohio State is Ohio State and Ohio and Miami are the two residential campuses that will survive with the help of increasing scholarship funds and historical political allies.

Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/17/2015 5:23:52 PM

ozarkcat wrote:

I always get a kick out of colleges and universities who say they are going to increase their scholarship pool while at the same time adding more administrators (especially those hired to raise more scholarship money) and adjunct faculty and building more buildings. Not once do they exercise any sense of fiscal responsibility by trimming waste and eliminating duplication.

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,561

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/18/2015 7:56:47 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

Not once do they exercise any sense of fiscal responsibility by trimming waste and eliminating duplication.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Casper71
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,918

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/18/2015 10:11:14 AM

To stir the pot, how 'bout this: In the next 50 years, I assume that on line education and classes will grow like crazy as administrators see how much more profitable they are. So, what are all the colleges and Universities gonna do with the buildings they have built? The capacity will far outweigh the demand.

I envision a lot more of the Indiana Wesleyans, etc where you see a campus with fewer buildings (certainly less than 90-100). There will still be a place for the Miamis and Ohios for those who want the traditional campus based experience but it will be much more difficult to survive in that niche. After all, would you rather take an on line course from a world known Harvard Prof or some GA or Adjunct or newly minted Prof? it's coming faster than you think!

The Optimist
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Location: CLE
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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/18/2015 1:06:43 PM

Casper71 wrote:

The online shift is already happening... Look at Ohio's MBA program. They have shifted that to an online focus already.

My Business Cluster a few years back (2010) was focused on the for-profit higher education model and with that a heavy focus on online education. In our examinations of those companies we examined a shift towards online courses at public universities... Been a few years since then and I have no doubt that shift has already accelerated.

Like you mentioned, I think there will always be students looking for a traditional campus setting... Why? Because young people view college as more than just educational classes. They view college as an experience.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Recovering Journalist
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/18/2015 1:35:21 PM

Mike Johnson wrote:

Misery loves company, and he seems to be casting the miserable state of his own university as part of a broad state-wide challenge. While it's clear that the next 50 years will bring changes that few of us can accurately predict, I really think he's off base in trying to compare a university like Ohio, with healthy and growing enrollment, and Akron, which faces declining enrollment, massive debts and huge regional competition from CSU and KSU.

Making a "great university" sounds pretty impressive, but he ought to concentrate on making Akron viable first.

Last Edited: 5/18/2015 1:35:56 PM by Recovering Journalist

SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/18/2015 5:11:47 PM

Couldn't agree more.

In his speech, he talked of drawing a line on a napkin, and listing on one side the state universities that are well positioned to survive a higher ed shakeout (he used the term "fully branded" universities, which is new to me). The schools in the other column - including Ohio - are likely to go out of business within the next 50 years, he claimed.

OSU and Cincinnati were two of the three identified as "survivors." The third was Miami, which I question. While MU has an excellent reputation, it is largely an undergraduate school with a comparatively small research footprint, correct? I would think they would be at risk in the new paradigm.

Of course, to claim that Akron is in the process of moving to the healthy side of the ledger is a bit farcical given the fact that they are aggressively cutting programs and faculty. The university's academic reputation is not terribly good in most areas, but the areas where they are strong don't draw a significant number of students. So how do you keep afloat when all of those undergrads in non-tech programs transfer to other schools?

Additionally, it's interesting to note that his new director of student learning ($250k-plus salary) comes from White Hat Management, owners of the state's WORST charter schools.

This is likely to get very ugly very fast.

Casper71
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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/18/2015 5:18:56 PM

Optimist, two things COULD put a fly in that ointment. First is the skyrocketing cost of tuition, fees, room and board that make it more and more difficult to attend a residential campus without incurring tons of debt. Second, when Universities see how much more profit there is in on line courses, more courses will go that way. I see that here at UC. Was a time when kids came home and went to summer classes here on Campus. Now most everything is on line and nobody the place is a ghost town.

There are just going to be a lot of major changes in higher ed that, as you said, few of us can predict accurately!

.
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Member Since: 2/3/2005
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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/20/2015 11:43:39 AM

My uninformed take: I think there are better choices ahead than Become the University of Phoenix or Die. And I think as more and more universities go online-only, having a campus in a place like Athens will become more and more attractive to a certain segment of prospective students. The traditional campus experience is kind of dying. So if you still have one that's a thing to sell, not dismantle.

Last Edited: 5/20/2015 11:44:03 AM by .

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/20/2015 11:53:57 AM

One of the things I'm having trouble grasping is how one can earn a teaching certificate via the internet as opposed to a traditional campus. As a superintendent I would find it very hard to hire someone who has spent no time in the classroom.

rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,547

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/20/2015 12:12:43 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

I would think they would do something like they do in nursing.
Take your classes on line and the school has affiliations with hospitals to let you do your clinical work.

Actually, my wife was looking into getting an online MSN with O.U.
But she found out that right now O.U. doesn't have any affiliations with hospitals in N.J.

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,779

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/21/2015 7:17:22 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

What if the Superintendent has an on-line ED degree? He might really understand the online value.

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,561

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/21/2015 7:44:59 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

That doesn't bother me as much for teaching. If a teacher can learn over the web, shouldn't they be able to teach over the web?

As it was mentioned above, I don't really understand how this would work for nursing.
I want my nurses to have real life practice poking IV's, not virtual experience.
^^^
And really, that drives home the deeper question... I could see how this is good for a lecture, but not so much for labs...

Last Edited: 5/21/2015 7:46:00 AM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,547

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/21/2015 12:45:07 PM

The Optimist wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

As I said,on-line nursing programs do require actual clinical experience.
Its just the hospital where you do it may be nowhere near the school where you're getting your degree.

Mike Johnson
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Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,719

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/21/2015 1:20:01 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

The Optimist wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

As I said,on-line nursing programs do require actual clinical experience.
Its just the hospital where you do it may be nowhere near the school where you're getting your degree.

That could well be the case, but not always. In our family I have a niece and a grandniece with bachelor's in nursing. Both did their degrees and hospital clinicals in the same town.

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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,547

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RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/22/2015 6:57:03 AM

Sorry,I wasn't clear.
What I should have said was that with a number of on-line programs you have the ability to do your clinical close where you live,as opposed the near the University where you're getting your degree.

greencat
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 2,227

Status: Offline

RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/22/2015 1:05:34 PM

This is an example what the real competition to brick-mortar colleges will be:

http://www.wgu.edu/

Take Middle Tennessee State U. for example. Being in a population boom area, the enrollment is now actually larger then UT-Knoxville. People can't get the classes they need for popular majors such as I.T. On top of that, I spoke with a rising soph. who said of all the history classes he needed to pick from as an elective this upcoming school year, only "history of the bible" was not already full.

He will be taking the readiness assessment test for WGU any day now. At least four states outside of Utah that I know of are now connected with it (Indiana, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas) Bill Gates gave the initial five million dollars start-up money for Tennessee to affiliate with WGU.

Last Edited: 5/22/2015 1:08:48 PM by greencat

TWT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,998

Status: Offline

RE: End coming?

Posted: 5/25/2015 11:16:00 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

ozarkcat wrote:

The administrators are hired to manage challenges. What they found was Universities operate in silos that were working at cross purposes. The administrators are there to put in processes to prevent it from happening and to streamline the silos, which means cuts to full time faculty. Streamlining and eliminating duplication is part of the end game. The days when the president and the administration were stymied by the unions from making changes are done with administrators there to prioritize and set agenda and can blame it on state cuts to higher ed while fully knowing their job is about making reductions.

Last Edited: 5/25/2015 11:24:48 PM by TWT

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