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Author Message TWT General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,998 Status: Offline     Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/12/2015 3:38:13 PM  Bolin said she believes the appropriate amount of time and care is being put into the project to make the Ridges a useful space. “It’s to all of our benefits that we have extended this and are looking at things very carefully,” she said. There is also talk of a potential hotel at the Ridges when the project gets underway, but Bolin said that any possible hotel project would be in collaboration with the Ohio University Inn. “We’re not looking to compete with ourselves or the OU Inn, but some of the buildings (at the Ridges) are suitable or adaptable for rooms and long-term suites,” she said. http://www.thepostathens.com/news/private-partnerships-a-... This would be great since there are no existing suites in town and could fetch a top dollar for the school. I can't imagine a hotel being structurally viable without some new building going up. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,072 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/12/2015 3:57:48 PM  I've always thought that a hotel and golf course up on the Ridges would be a great addition to the university. It's hard to believe that their isn't an 18 hole course in the county. If you've ever walked around much up there, you can literally see some pretty good golf holes right before your eyes. An 18 hole course would certainly be an attractive thing for those looking to settle somewhere when they retire. Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,547 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/12/2015 4:45:40 PM  Apparently a number of locations at the Ridges already have long term occupants who may not wish to share space with guests. Last Edited: 7/12/2015 4:48:54 PM by rpbobcat Back to Top . General User Member Since: 2/3/2005 Post Count: 2,969 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/13/2015 4:16:10 PM  "Complimentary Big Wheel for your child to ride the halls!" Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,561 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/13/2015 8:57:52 PM  This would be cool. I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top Mark Lembright '85 General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Highland Heights, OH Post Count: 2,447 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/13/2015 9:59:35 PM  Alan Swank wrote: I've always thought that a hotel and golf course up on the Ridges would be a great addition to the university. It's hard to believe that their isn't an 18 hole course in the county. If you've ever walked around much up there, you can literally see some pretty good golf holes right before your eyes. An 18 hole course would certainly be an attractive thing for those looking to settle somewhere when they retire. Agreed! Athens has the perfect terrain for a really challenging and fun course! Pete Dye would have a field day!! Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,101 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 9:40:36 AM  Hotel California. Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,561 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 10:39:13 AM  Is the Athens Country Club only 9 holes? I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,072 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 10:57:11 AM  The Optimist wrote: Is the Athens Country Club only 9 holes? Yep and so is OU and so is the Elm. There were quite a few very excited people who put money down on lots when they were going to build an 18 hole course at University Estates 15 years ago myself included. Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,561 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 12:05:28 PM  Alan Swank wrote: The Optimist wrote: Is the Athens Country Club only 9 holes? Yep and so is OU and so is the Elm. There were quite a few very excited people who put money down on lots when they were going to build an 18 hole course at University Estates 15 years ago myself included. Interesting. I realize it isn't a cheap venture to undertake by any means, but I am a little surprised no one has ever been able to pull that off. Roger Watson was my Real Estate 101 prof at Ohio. He developed the land next to the Athens Country Club. It was very interesting listening to him discuss that. I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,072 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 12:51:52 PM  The Optimist wrote: Alan Swank wrote: The Optimist wrote: Is the Athens Country Club only 9 holes? Yep and so is OU and so is the Elm. There were quite a few very excited people who put money down on lots when they were going to build an 18 hole course at University Estates 15 years ago myself included. Interesting. I realize it isn't a cheap venture to undertake by any means, but I am a little surprised no one has ever been able to pull that off. Roger Watson was my Real Estate 101 prof at Ohio. He developed the land next to the Athens Country Club. It was very interesting listening to him discuss that. There have been at least 3 attempts on land in and around University Estates. In one case, some holes were actually "developed." In the last case, the design was complete and then two things happened - a group fought against it because of the fear of damaging/destroying our water supply and the developer ran out of cash. Most places build the course first then the homes go up. Here they tried it in reverse. Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 12:56:38 PM  Golf is fading in popularity and requires a good bit of disposable income, and you guys are surprised at the dearth of courses in a poor and sparsely populated part of the state? I enjoy golfing, and I actually like the three little 9-hole course in Athens County (even the lovely but ratty Elm). That doesn't change the fact that it would be deeply foolish to sink millions into building out an 18-hole course in Athens. http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/04... Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,072 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 1:52:40 PM  Living in Cleveland you have the opportunity to play numerous high quality public courses for a very reasonable fee. If you parked at the city limits in Athens on Saturday and Sunday morning you would see quite a few cars headed out of town to play an 18 hole course. A well maintained course would fly here in Athens if it offered public and membership play, had a modest dining facility and sponsored a full range of tournaments throughout the year. The courses that are closing are in areas that overbuilt not in areas where there is no competition. Someone floated the idea of what you'd do if you won the lottery - I'd built a nice course here in Athens. Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,561 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 2:06:32 PM  Recovering Journalist wrote: Golf is fading in popularity and requires a good bit of disposable income, and you guys are surprised at the dearth of courses in a poor and sparsely populated part of the state? Rural Athens may be poor and the county as a whole may be sparsely populated but I certainly believe there is a fair amount of money in Athens (centered around OHIO University) and a large enough population to support a full 18-hole golf course. Athens is now basically one hour from Columbus. I believe a quality course could draw people from that far away. I know plenty in Cleveland who would drive further for good golf. Add in the fact that a trip to such a course would also give Alumni an excuse to visit Athens... It isn't a sure-thing, but it is "interesting" like I stated. I wouldn't characterize myself as shocked there isn't an 18-hole course. The biggest challenge in my view is the challenges surrounding development. Like Alan mentioned, there is a lot that can go wrong when undertaking a project like this. That said, I would imagine homes surrounding an 18-hole course in Athens would go for a pretty penny. Considering that initial potential for home sales and then all the Athens community members and even some students who golf, or alumni. I think you could get enough people interested to play a round to cover costs. Interesting. Last Edited: 7/14/2015 2:10:30 PM by The Optimist I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top OUs LONG Driver General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Copley, OH Post Count: 660 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/14/2015 6:12:41 PM  The idea that a golf course needs a metropolis to support it is off base. Belpre and Mason, WV have 18 hole courses that do just fine and numerous other places that are just as or more remote than Athens do too. I've said this before on this board....I bet Athens is the epicenter of the furthest distance to an 18 hole course in the state. I would definitely be more likely to return more often or for more time if there was a decent 18 hole course near town. Golf has declined in popularity partly because of the time it takes to play (AKA golf courses are/were overcrowded). I've seen the decline of courses that were recently closed. They generally all have the same issue.... they begin to lose their quality and at the first sign of struggle the courses are sold to an inexperienced group who does not have the money to reinvest in the facility and they run it into the ground trying to do it on the cheap. Once the quality of the course dips significantly the crowds dry up and they usually close the following year. I'm a self-confessed golf course snob and do enjoy the NE Ohio variety of quality courses on a regular basis. Not uncommon for me to drive an hour or more 1 way to meet a friend to play. A quality course will draw people from well outside the county. FWIW The Elm is my least favorite golf course of all time. I've been there a half dozen times and swore I would never go back many times. I like the OU course, but it has gone down hill in recent years. Have not been there this year but last year it looked like crab grass was taking over and bunkers were not well kept. I hope that changes or already has. I hope to get 9 in Friday before the Marshall game. Some Critical items to golf course survival in rural areas: Layout - must appeal to a variety of skills, AKA multiple tee sets, with reasonable penalties for poor shots. A Course with a slope of 150 and rating of 76 won't get the average Joe on the links. Sustainability - Low maintenance costs. 5 huge deep bunkers per hole look nice but cost a fortune to maintain. Memberships, Leagues, and Outings - This is like season tickets in other sports. You must have a baseline of recurring business. Management plays a huge role in this. Putting on a good outing or league is an art and takes a lot of effort, but they also bring in a lot of guaranteed money and keep customers coming back at other times for more money per person. I genuinely believe a course could charge $40 plus on the weekends including cart fee in the Athens area and be just fine. Crossing that $50 threshold is a tipping point for a lot of people. With all that said it's a HUGE investment to build a nice golf course. I don't see it happening anytime soon for Athens. I'm on board for taking my lottery winnings to Athens to build a course though. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,072 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/15/2015 11:12:30 AM  OUs LONG Driver wrote: The idea that a golf course needs a metropolis to support it is off base. Belpre and Mason, WV have 18 hole courses that do just fine and numerous other places that are just as or more remote than Athens do too. I've said this before on this board....I bet Athens is the epicenter of the furthest distance to an 18 hole course in the state. I would definitely be more likely to return more often or for more time if there was a decent 18 hole course near town. Golf has declined in popularity partly because of the time it takes to play (AKA golf courses are/were overcrowded). I've seen the decline of courses that were recently closed. They generally all have the same issue.... they begin to lose their quality and at the first sign of struggle the courses are sold to an inexperienced group who does not have the money to reinvest in the facility and they run it into the ground trying to do it on the cheap. Once the quality of the course dips significantly the crowds dry up and they usually close the following year. I'm a self-confessed golf course snob and do enjoy the NE Ohio variety of quality courses on a regular basis. Not uncommon for me to drive an hour or more 1 way to meet a friend to play. A quality course will draw people from well outside the county. FWIW The Elm is my least favorite golf course of all time. I've been there a half dozen times and swore I would never go back many times. I like the OU course, but it has gone down hill in recent years. Have not been there this year but last year it looked like crab grass was taking over and bunkers were not well kept. I hope that changes or already has. I hope to get 9 in Friday before the Marshall game. Some Critical items to golf course survival in rural areas: Layout - must appeal to a variety of skills, AKA multiple tee sets, with reasonable penalties for poor shots. A Course with a slope of 150 and rating of 76 won't get the average Joe on the links. Sustainability - Low maintenance costs. 5 huge deep bunkers per hole look nice but cost a fortune to maintain. Memberships, Leagues, and Outings - This is like season tickets in other sports. You must have a baseline of recurring business. Management plays a huge role in this. Putting on a good outing or league is an art and takes a lot of effort, but they also bring in a lot of guaranteed money and keep customers coming back at other times for more money per person. I genuinely believe a course could charge $40 plus on the weekends including cart fee in the Athens area and be just fine. Crossing that $50 threshold is a tipping point for a lot of people. With all that said it's a HUGE investment to build a nice golf course. I don't see it happening anytime soon for Athens. I'm on board for taking my lottery winnings to Athens to build a course though. WOW! What a great post. You've hit every possible point squarely on the head. Assuming I'm in town for the Marshall game, I'd love to tee it up with you at the OU course. Back to Top Recovering Journalist General User Member Since: 8/17/2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 1,839 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/15/2015 2:52:59 PM  Alan Swank wrote: WOW! What a great post. You've hit every possible point squarely on the head. Assuming I'm in town for the Marshall game, I'd love to tee it up with you at the OU course. Agreed. You both articulated some good points. I still don't think investing in building out a course in or near Athens would be financially prudent, but it was food for thought. Siberia threads like this make the offseason go a bit faster. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,779 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/15/2015 3:23:16 PM  You are correct, because those 18 hole courses in the rest of rural Ohio are closing daily or struggling. NOT, now, starting one today could be economic suicide. Back to Top OUs LONG Driver General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Copley, OH Post Count: 660 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/15/2015 8:27:43 PM  Alan Swank wrote: OUs LONG Driver wrote: The idea that a golf course needs a metropolis to support it is off base. Belpre and Mason, WV have 18 hole courses that do just fine and numerous other places that are just as or more remote than Athens do too. I've said this before on this board....I bet Athens is the epicenter of the furthest distance to an 18 hole course in the state. I would definitely be more likely to return more often or for more time if there was a decent 18 hole course near town. Golf has declined in popularity partly because of the time it takes to play (AKA golf courses are/were overcrowded). I've seen the decline of courses that were recently closed. They generally all have the same issue.... they begin to lose their quality and at the first sign of struggle the courses are sold to an inexperienced group who does not have the money to reinvest in the facility and they run it into the ground trying to do it on the cheap. Once the quality of the course dips significantly the crowds dry up and they usually close the following year. I'm a self-confessed golf course snob and do enjoy the NE Ohio variety of quality courses on a regular basis. Not uncommon for me to drive an hour or more 1 way to meet a friend to play. A quality course will draw people from well outside the county. FWIW The Elm is my least favorite golf course of all time. I've been there a half dozen times and swore I would never go back many times. I like the OU course, but it has gone down hill in recent years. Have not been there this year but last year it looked like crab grass was taking over and bunkers were not well kept. I hope that changes or already has. I hope to get 9 in Friday before the Marshall game. Some Critical items to golf course survival in rural areas: Layout - must appeal to a variety of skills, AKA multiple tee sets, with reasonable penalties for poor shots. A Course with a slope of 150 and rating of 76 won't get the average Joe on the links. Sustainability - Low maintenance costs. 5 huge deep bunkers per hole look nice but cost a fortune to maintain. Memberships, Leagues, and Outings - This is like season tickets in other sports. You must have a baseline of recurring business. Management plays a huge role in this. Putting on a good outing or league is an art and takes a lot of effort, but they also bring in a lot of guaranteed money and keep customers coming back at other times for more money per person. I genuinely believe a course could charge $40 plus on the weekends including cart fee in the Athens area and be just fine. Crossing that $50 threshold is a tipping point for a lot of people. With all that said it's a HUGE investment to build a nice golf course. I don't see it happening anytime soon for Athens. I'm on board for taking my lottery winnings to Athens to build a course though. WOW! What a great post. You've hit every possible point squarely on the head. Assuming I'm in town for the Marshall game, I'd love to tee it up with you at the OU course. Thanks. I generally have 3 others that play when I'm there and they usually let me take their money, but if I don't I will PM you. Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,547 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/16/2015 6:50:41 AM  Don't feel like copying the whole post,but I want to respond to the comment about golf courses needing to be in metropolitan areas. I live in North Jersey,about 15 minutes from Manhattan. There used to be a bunch of golf courses around here.But over the past few years a number of them have closed or sold off a lot of their land. This was due to a declining interest in golf,in part because of the costs (we don't have many publice courses) and the fact that the land is so valuable. I have several friends who are avid golfers. They say it used to be tough to get "tee times" at the clubs they belong to,but not anymore. So just being in a densely populated area doesn't seem to assure a course's success. Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,370 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/16/2015 11:27:00 PM  "I tell ya, country clubs and cemeteries - biggest wastes of prime real estate" - Rodney Dangerfield, Caddyshack Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,072 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/17/2015 8:27:27 AM  Just to be clear, we're talking about a public 18 hole facility not a private country club. There are not enough local golfers to sustain a private 18 hole facility. Back to Top Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 3,021 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/20/2015 12:16:00 PM  I'm with Alan on this one. I think Athens County can support an 18 hole course. And, if you make it nice enough for NCAA golf to be played on it, you could end up with a nice tie in to OU Athletics and the MAC for events. I've heard it costs at least $1 million per hole to build a course. Wonder if that's true. Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,072 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/20/2015 3:50:32 PM  Ohio69 wrote: I'm with Alan on this one. I think Athens County can support an 18 hole course. And, if you make it nice enough for NCAA golf to be played on it, you could end up with a nice tie in to OU Athletics and the MAC for events. I've heard it costs at least $1 million per hole to build a course. Wonder if that's true. This is a few years old but I've heard recently $250,000 per hole. The nice part is OU put it on The Ridges, they already own the land. http://www.tmgolfdesign.com/cost.pdf Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,547 Status: Offline     RE: Hotel at the Ridges?    Posted: 7/21/2015 6:48:07 AM  The cost to build a golf course is one thing,but don't forget about maintaince. I've done design work for a few golf courses. I was amazed at the amount of work that goes into their upkeep. Staff,equipment etc. I found out that some areas get groomed every day. Plus,you have to be able to irrigate them. You'd really need to "run the numbers" to be sure this is practical. 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