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The following occurred in my son's little league game Thursday night: Runners on first and third with one out. . . batter hits a blooper to second base where my son catches it on the fly for second out. . . runner at first was running on contact while runner at third tags up . . . my son outruns the runner to first base for the third out but not before the runner at third crosses home plate. Does the run count because he crossed home plate before the third out?. . . or does it not count because the third out was a force out? Back to Top Joe McKinley General User Member Since: 11/15/2004 Post Count: 485 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 5/28/2016 4:11:48 PM  There is no force out in this situation if the fielder caught a pop fly. If the runner from third crossed the plate before the runner retreating to first base is called out, then the run scores. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,949 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 5/28/2016 7:07:11 PM  Joe McKinley wrote: There is no force out in this situation if the fielder caught a pop fly. If the runner from third crossed the plate before the runner retreating to first base is called out, then the run scores. +1 Baseball 101, problem here is mechanics and having the right angles and views for such a play. 1 man, impossible. Two man, without proper training and knowledge tough. But couple missing facts here. Runner on 3rd legally get back to the bag before breaking for home? This is unlikely given your case play, but if the runner on 3rd did legally tag, and crossed the plate before the 3rd out the run counts because that is a "time out" and not a "force" as Joe stated, run would count Last Edited: 5/28/2016 7:12:36 PM by BillyTheCat Back to Top bobcatsquared General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 5,260 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 5/31/2016 12:58:04 PM  Teenager umpires got the call correct (knew the rule or by luck?). In the end, the run didn't matter in a 10-6 game. This was the first time I've seen this play in five decades of playing/coaching/watching the game. Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,965 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 5/31/2016 4:28:54 PM  Interesting scenario. Heads up play by the runner on 3rd. Agree with Joe, the last out wasn't a true force out so the run counts if they cross the plate first. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top 1stInConvo General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 44 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/1/2016 5:24:05 PM  Coach Wren used to teach and use the ramifications of the same rule. 1st and 3rd, delayed double steal, draw the throw towards second but runner stops short and gets in run down. Runner at 3rd attempts to score before the tag between 1st and 2nd is made, or they throw home, he beats the throw and the runner ends up safe at second. If there were two outs, you get at least one run home, or two runners in scoring position. Back to Top Bobcatbob General User Member Since: 12/21/2004 Location: Coolville, OH Post Count: 1,346 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/6/2016 2:32:44 PM  I can't believe there wasn't a knock down drag-out argument on the field about the infield fly rule. You dodged a bullet there. Years ago, I was behind the plate for a LL game and called out a runner (for interference) after he steam rolled the second baseman trying to field a grounder. From that experience alone, I can tell you with certainty that every LL parent is also a rules expert. No room for discussion. Glad they got it right. Last Edited: 6/6/2016 2:32:58 PM by Bobcatbob Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,949 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/6/2016 10:41:02 PM  Bobcatbob wrote: I can't believe there wasn't a knock down drag-out argument on the field about the infield fly rule. You dodged a bullet there. Years ago, I was behind the plate for a LL game and called out a runner (for interference) after he steam rolled the second baseman trying to field a grounder. From that experience alone, I can tell you with certainty that every LL parent is also a rules expert. No room for discussion. Glad they got it right. The infield fly rule is not in effect here, and "blooper", would not meet the definition of an infield fly to begin with. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,320 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/7/2016 1:06:38 PM  Bobcatbob wrote: I can't believe there wasn't a knock down drag-out argument on the field about the infield fly rule. You dodged a bullet there. Years ago, I was behind the plate for a LL game and called out a runner (for interference) after he steam rolled the second baseman trying to field a grounder. From that experience alone, I can tell you with certainty that every LL parent is also a rules expert. No room for discussion. Glad they got it right. Even longer ago I had a brief stint as an umpire in OHIO intramurals. It was in a fraternity league. I was the lone umpire in a game between Alpha Phi Alpha and a white fraternity (yes, unfortunately, fraternities were still mostly segregated at that time). The white guys were at bat. I can't remember the number of outs. They had men on base. The batter hit what could best be called an "infield spinner." The ball dropped by the pitcher's foot. The pitcher had moved to his right trying to get an angle on the ball. This obstructed my view. The ball came spinning down right at the pitcher's foot and bounced sharply out of bounds between home and third. The way the ball bounced so sharply out of bounds, my instant instinct was to call it a fair ball because it had hit the pitcher's shoe before bouncing out of bounds. This allowed two runs to score. The Alphas, some of whom had a better view than I did, insisted that the ball had not hit their player's foot and came charging at me with what appeared to be intent to do me bodily harm. I didn't feel that I could reverse my decision based on intimidation. Just as one player was about to throw me to the ground, a big Alpha brother stepped in and very forcefully shoved the would-be assailants away and stood there and said, "He called it the way he saw it. Let's play ball." That diffused the situation and the game continued without further incident. To this day I wish I knew who that Alpha brother was who saved me from injury. I certainly owe him a pitcher at local watering hole. ;-) The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,949 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/8/2016 5:08:13 AM  OhioCatFan wrote: Bobcatbob wrote: I can't believe there wasn't a knock down drag-out argument on the field about the infield fly rule. You dodged a bullet there. Years ago, I was behind the plate for a LL game and called out a runner (for interference) after he steam rolled the second baseman trying to field a grounder. From that experience alone, I can tell you with certainty that every LL parent is also a rules expert. No room for discussion. Glad they got it right. Even longer ago I had a brief stint as an umpire in OHIO intramurals. It was in a fraternity league. I was the lone umpire in a game between Alpha Phi Alpha and a white fraternity (yes, unfortunately, fraternities were still mostly segregated at that time). The white guys were at bat. I can't remember the number of outs. They had men on base. The batter hit what could best be called an "infield spinner." The ball dropped by the pitcher's foot. The pitcher had moved to his right trying to get an angle on the ball. This obstructed my view. The ball came spinning down right at the pitcher's foot and bounced sharply out of bounds between home and third. The way the ball bounced so sharply out of bounds, my instant instinct was to call it a fair ball because it had hit the pitcher's shoe before bouncing out of bounds. This allowed two runs to score. The Alphas, some of whom had a better view than I did, insisted that the ball had not hit their player's foot and came charging at me with what appeared to be intent to do me bodily harm. I didn't feel that I could reverse my decision based on intimidation. Just as one player was about to throw me to the ground, a big Alpha brother stepped in and very forcefully shoved the would-be assailants away and stood there and said, "He called it the way he saw it. Let's play ball." That diffused the situation and the game continued without further incident. To this day I wish I knew who that Alpha brother was who saved me from injury. I certainly owe him a pitcher at local watering hole. ;-) Why is the race of the teams participating even relative in this story? Back to Top Bobcatbob General User Member Since: 12/21/2004 Location: Coolville, OH Post Count: 1,346 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/8/2016 8:16:54 AM  BillyTheCat wrote: Bobcatbob wrote: I can't believe there wasn't a knock down drag-out argument on the field about the infield fly rule. You dodged a bullet there. Years ago, I was behind the plate for a LL game and called out a runner (for interference) after he steam rolled the second baseman trying to field a grounder. From that experience alone, I can tell you with certainty that every LL parent is also a rules expert. No room for discussion. Glad they got it right. The infield fly rule is not in effect here, and "blooper", would not meet the definition of an infield fly to begin with. I agree but you and I know the rule... Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,965 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/9/2016 9:23:58 AM  Bobcatbob wrote: BillyTheCat wrote: Bobcatbob wrote: I can't believe there wasn't a knock down drag-out argument on the field about the infield fly rule. You dodged a bullet there. Years ago, I was behind the plate for a LL game and called out a runner (for interference) after he steam rolled the second baseman trying to field a grounder. From that experience alone, I can tell you with certainty that every LL parent is also a rules expert. No room for discussion. Glad they got it right. The infield fly rule is not in effect here, and "blooper", would not meet the definition of an infield fly to begin with. I agree but you and I know the rule... I think his point was superstar parents are always screaming "infield fly rule!" in countless situations where it shouldn't apply and get upset due to their incorrect understanding of the rule. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,949 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/10/2016 5:56:11 AM  Andrew Ruck wrote: Bobcatbob wrote: BillyTheCat wrote: Bobcatbob wrote: I can't believe there wasn't a knock down drag-out argument on the field about the infield fly rule. You dodged a bullet there. Years ago, I was behind the plate for a LL game and called out a runner (for interference) after he steam rolled the second baseman trying to field a grounder. From that experience alone, I can tell you with certainty that every LL parent is also a rules expert. No room for discussion. Glad they got it right. The infield fly rule is not in effect here, and "blooper", would not meet the definition of an infield fly to begin with. I agree but you and I know the rule... I think his point was superstar parents are always screaming "infield fly rule!" in countless situations where it shouldn't apply and get upset due to their incorrect understanding of the rule. +1 Back to Top 1stInConvo General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 44 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/10/2016 10:41:21 AM  Ever had to call a runner out when an infielder intentionally drops a fly ball or line drive? Applies in situations similar to an infield fly rule. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,949 Status: Offline     RE: Need an umpire's viewpoint    Posted: 6/10/2016 11:00:15 PM  Yep, easy calls, and smart defense in the right situations. Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 15  of 15 Posts Jump to Page:   1 View Other 'Ohio Baseball' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 303 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 301 Guests 2 Registered Users:   shabamon, Turney13 There are no other users looking at this page.

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