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Topic: TOS to Northwestern

Topic: TOS to Northwestern

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cc-cat
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TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 7:27:27 PM

It’s only going to get worse.

colobobcat66
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 7:54:00 PM

cc-cat wrote:

It’s only going to get worse.

Surprised they didn’t fire him on the spot, there’s some nasty stuff going on there. What a culture. He’s lucky he’s in the big ten west, or he’d probably be gone with his mediocre record there.

Pataskala
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 8:39:39 PM

He must have the goods on somebody. If that crap had occurred at just about any other NWern sport, or with the band, or with a frat or sorority, you can be damn sure that heads would be rolling into the lake.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

L.C.
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 8:52:27 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

It’s only going to get worse.

"Mediocre"? Surely you are joking. His record is amazing. Here is a comparison with other Northwestern Football Coaches since 1935. His win percentage is the highest in the last 90 years, and his win total is more than double the second best.

Pat Fitzgerald 2006-Present 109-90 .548
Pappy Waldorf 1935-1946 49-47-7 .520
Ara Parseghian 1956-1963 36-35-1 .507
Bob Voights 1947-1954 33-39-1 .459
Randy Walker 1999-2005 37-46 .445
Gary Barnett 1992-1998 35-45-1 .438
Alex Agase 1964-1972 32-58-1 .357
John Pont 1973-1977 12-43 182 .218
Francis Peay 1986-1991 13-51-2 .212
Dennis Green 1981-1985 10-45 .182
Lou Saban 1955 0-8-1 .056
Rick Venturi 1978-1980 1-31-1 .045

Not all these are household names, but Lou Saban, Ara Parseghian, Gary Barnett, and Dennis Green all struggled to win at Northwestern, but did much better elsewhere. Northwestern is not an easy place to win.

Amazing record or not, I can't believe his is not already gone. I have to think that the two week suspension is just to give time for a complete investigation, and if they find that Fitzgerald was aware of the situation, he will be gone.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

colobobcat66
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 9:06:48 PM

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

It’s only going to get worse.

Unfortunately, just the record at northwestern is not an indication of how good a coach is compared to other coaches in the country. I’m guessing other academically tough schools like Stanford and ND have done a lot better than NW. how’s he done lately? Is that something to be proud of?

With that bunch of losing records, maybe they should have dropped football like the University of Chicago did years ago.

Last Edited: 7/8/2023 9:12:11 PM by colobobcat66

OhioCatFan
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 10:17:13 PM

via GIPHY

Last Edited: 7/8/2023 10:21:49 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

OhioCatFan
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 10:23:21 PM

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

It’s only going to get worse.

Well, he did lose to Miami a few years ago! ;-)

greencat
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 10:25:23 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

It’s only going to get worse.

He went 1-11 last season with home losses to Southern Illinois and Fiami.

OhioCatFan
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/8/2023 11:07:11 PM

greencat wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

It’s only going to get worse.

He went 1-11 last season with home losses to Southern Illinois and Fiami.

You are correct. I thought that the loss to the Redchickens was two years ago, but it was just last year.

[Trivia question: Late in the last century, before Fitzgerald was the coach, one year when NW won the Big Ten and had an otherwise unblemished regular season record, their lone loss was to Miami. So, the NW snobs have a habit of losing the Buckeye State's snob school. Can anyone name the year without engaging in an internet search?]

Pete Chouteau
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/9/2023 7:27:54 AM

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

It’s only going to get worse.

It WAS a complete investigation (in the private school's estimation). The allegations were brought forth to the administration in late 2022. The reporting person spoke with investigators in December. The independent investigation launched in January. Northwestern was not looking any further, they were done.

It's a sham! And sloppy! Pure and simple! Announcing the immediate suspension amid the coaching dead period is a smokescreen. All the mea culpas and paeans to student safety are baloney. Yesterday's ENTIRE team statement supporting the coach was only missing "those meddling kids".

Accountability is not for the powerful.

colobobcat66
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/9/2023 7:53:04 AM

Pete Chouteau wrote:

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

cc-cat wrote:

It’s only going to get worse.

I liken this investigation to that at Iowa recently. They want to keep the coach regardless of how egregious Their conduct. Don’t fully understand why.
And the ENTIRE football team just came out in support of the coach and the culture! (Apparently not the accusers )

And the President at NW now says he’s going to look at the situation again (after talking to the accuser and his family)

Last Edited: 7/9/2023 8:01:28 AM by colobobcat66

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/9/2023 10:18:36 AM

is there a story upon which this thread is based?

colobobcat66
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/9/2023 11:28:43 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

is there a story upon which this thread is based?

Several. Check out ESPN website

L.C.
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/9/2023 1:22:19 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

Northwestern faces multiple issues in trying to be competitive in football. One is academics. Another is the fact that they have a much, much smaller enrollment than most of the Big Ten. Another is that they have no "natural" recruiting area; even though they are in the Chicago area, they are unknown and irrelevant in Chicago, and statewide they have to compete with Illinois. On top of that, they used to have very poor facilities, though that may no longer be true.

As for his record the last two years, yes, it has not been good. Still, years like that are not uncommon at Northwestern, so he has a wider margin for error than a coach would have at most schools today. If he has a couple more 1-10 seasons, he will no doubt be fired for performance reasons, as tolerance does have limits, even at Northwestern.

As for whether they should give up football entirely, perhaps they should. Yet, it is true that almost all of the really, really bad records came in the period from 1973 to 1991:
John Pont 1973-1977 12-43 182 .218
Rick Venturi 1978-1980 1-31-1 .045
Dennis Green 1981-1985 10-45 .182
Francis Peay 1986-1991 13-51-2 .212

That was a dark era for Northwestern. It was very comparable to the Bryant-Lichtenberg period for Ohio, but it lasted nearly twice as long. Should Ohio have given up football after that period?

I don't see any reason for firing Fitzgerald, at this point, for performance. On the other hand, I am very surprised he wasn't summarily dismissed for cause.

Last Edited: 7/9/2023 1:27:01 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Victory
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/9/2023 2:39:03 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

[Trivia question: Late in the last century, before Fitzgerald was the coach, one year when NW won the Big Ten and had an otherwise unblemished regular season record, their lone loss was to Miami. So, the NW snobs have a habit of losing the Buckeye State's snob school. Can anyone name the year without engaging in an internet search?]

It was 1995. Notre Dame had made solo TV deal with NBC just a few years prior. ND alum Joe Montana had just retired and was in his first game as studio analyst. Montana's pregame analysis was that Notre Dame was likely to be one of the best teams in the country and Northwestern the worst team in the Big Ten. The result was a very surprising upset that was more surprising than if Indiana beat Ohio State in week 1 in a couple of months. Montana had to eat crow after the game which he did pretty graciously. Everyone wondered if this was just a massive upset, or if Northwestern was much better than expected or if Notre Dame was much worse, or a combination of these. When Miami, who lost their opener to Ball State, beat Northwestern, who was now in the top 25, in their next game college football thought it had its answer. But then some more things nobody expected happened:

Northwestern ran the table until the Rose Bowl and won the Big Ten and ended up 10-2 with losses to Miami and USC and ranked #8 in the AP. They had one of the best defenses in the country that was led by Pat Fitzgerald.

Miami went 8-2-1 with losses to Ball State, Michigan and a tie against otherwise perfect 10-0-1 Toledo. There were a lot fewer bowl games then but as happened several times in the 90's to early 2000's Miami got passed over for a bowl to the benefit of teams with obviously lesser resumes but higher name recognition. Miami was probably the poster child for the call to create more bowls because, after all, I guess more deserving lesser known teams getting a bowl ahead of .500 P5 teams wasn't considered a possible option.

Notre Dame's only other losses that year were to Ohio State and then Florida State in the Orange Bowl. They finished ranked #11.

You might be thinking that with all these other losses among these teams to teams that were among the best in the country that Ball State must have been pretty good too. They were pretty good for a MAC team and did finish third. They lost to two lower division Big Ten teams in Purdue and Minnesota as well as Toledo and EMU to finish 7-4 (6-2). They were OK but their win over Miami turned out to be the game that was probably the biggest upset in all of that.

Last Edited: 7/9/2023 2:56:48 PM by Victory

OhioCatFan
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/9/2023 3:20:22 PM

Victory wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Not only do you win the Trivia Trophy, you get 1000+ points of extra credit for your sterling analysis. I'm very impressed!

Victory
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/9/2023 4:01:21 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Victory wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Not only do you win the Trivia Trophy, you get 1000+ points of extra credit for your sterling analysis. I'm very impressed!

I did know the year off the top of my head because I knew it was the same year Nebraska made an argument for the best team of all time. A lot of that was from memory but obviously once I got going I had to look up who the specific teams some of the losses were to and the final rankings. I don't want you to think I remembered all of that.

Ohio went 2-8-1 in Jim Grobe's first season. We can also note this as the last year of the dark age and the last year Ohio had the paw as a logo.

OhioCatFan
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/10/2023 12:40:22 AM

Victory wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Victory wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Not only do you win the Trivia Trophy, you get 1000+ points of extra credit for your sterling analysis. I'm very impressed!

Still very, very good at your memory and your analysis. Truth be told, I didn't remember the exact year when I posted the question until I looked it up. I know some on here have much better memories than I do for exact dates and details surrounding those dates. (Cue SBH and/or bobcat squared for an Alden v. Marshall riposte.) And, to your last point, the end of the Dark Ages of OHIO football and the retirement of the PAW as the official logo may been slightly contributive rather than merely associative. (Cue Alan Swank for a hubristic defense of that most-generic of all logos.)

I remember Grobe making a joke that when someone asked him about the record that year that he would mumble the "two" and then clearly enunciate the "eight" and "one" making the hearer think that he had said 8-1.

GoCats105
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/10/2023 10:50:07 AM

colobobcat66 wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

is there a story upon which this thread is based?

Several. Check out ESPN website

Better, check the Northwestern STUDENT newspaper who uncovered more of the investigation than anyone else has.

cc-cat
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/10/2023 1:14:23 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

Better, check the Northwestern STUDENT newspaper who uncovered more of the investigation than anyone else has.

Damn

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2023/07/08/top-stories/form... /

I'm waiting for Fitzgerald to declare the I should have known but did not. Had I known....bullshit

GoCats105
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/10/2023 2:04:03 PM

cc-cat wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

Better, check the Northwestern STUDENT newspaper who uncovered more of the investigation than anyone else has.

Damn

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2023/07/08/top-stories/form... /

I'm waiting for Fitzgerald to declare the I should have known but did not. Had I known....bullshit

Another player from all the way back in 2007 said there was hazing back then too, so this has been going on for a while, pretty much since Fitzgerald started his tenure.

colobobcat66
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/10/2023 5:32:04 PM

If he is fired, which I kind of doubt, will he be able to get a good job since he’s a coach with an amazing record at NW? Depending on what else comes out, he would be damaged goods but that doesn’t matter at all nowadays.

colobobcat66
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/10/2023 5:35:51 PM

And now 3 more players coming forward supporting the hazing claims and adding racist claims as well. This could get really interesting.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/10/2023 6:27:19 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

He's gonna get fired. There's no justifying this. At best, he had no control. At worst, he knew. Either is not worth keeping around.

L.C.
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RE: TOS to Northwestern

Posted: 7/10/2023 7:29:16 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Northwestern has also lost to the Bobcats. I was at the game in 1973 when Ohio won, 14-12. 1973 was the beginning of their 20 years of terrible football.

colobobcat66 wrote:

He has now been fired. I doubt anyone will hire him, at least, not for a number of years.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/northwest... /

Last Edited: 7/10/2023 7:42:02 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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