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Topic:  Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC

Topic:  Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 10:42:12 AM 
There is no easy way around it. If the proposed Big 10/Pac 12/ACC merger happens, we are in a world of hurt. It seems they won't play non-conference teams which means no football paydays. Potentially it could even hurt other sports, especially basketball. We could be reduced to never playing any Power schools. It might be more competetive, but it won't do much for fan interest, and the money that funds the entire sports budget in the first place. We shall see, but storms clouds are on the horizon.
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OUbobcat9092
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 11:04:27 AM 
It's not a merger, but an alliance to offset the increasing influence of the SEC.

Bring Back Men's Track & Field

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 11:13:21 AM 
OUbobcat9092 wrote:
It's not a merger, but an alliance to offset the increasing influence of the SEC.


I agree its not a formal merger.

But, from listening to the comments from representatives of the 3 conferences,
it does seem that intent is to concentrate "non-conference" games to opponents within the 3 conferences.

That will provide a number of "marque matchups " .

It also seems likely, that if the "alliance" works out, a merger would be the next step.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 11:18:44 AM 
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 12:53:10 PM 
SEC will still want at least one game a year that's practically a gimme and I imagine most B10 schools will, too. The biggest hurt will be on 1AA (aka FCS) schools because games with them are lose-lose from a CFP standpoint. Most of the ACC teams have at least one 1AA team a year. Those'll be the first to go. It'll also be tough on indies like UMass, UConn and NM State. I don't think we'll be shut out but don't count on getting more than one game a year from any team, including SECers. Kentucky has two MAC games and a 1AA in five of the next six years. Look for that to drop to one G5 and no 1AAs after that.

We will get by.
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 1:22:10 PM 
I actually think the alliance is great news or at least good news for any of the group of 5. Because that means we are not going to immediately go the route of super conferences. Which means your still involved.

This alliance is all about drawing revenue and increasing payouts to each school. I think every conference is going to go 9 conference games and then each team from this alliance will play another power 5 game against a team in the alliance from another conference every year. this puts you to 10 power 5 games. or say even at the worst every team from the alliance plays 2 alliance games a year that brings your total to 11 games. So there are still going to be plenty of buy games out there.

The bigger point a lot of people seem to be missing is how much power this gives these three conferences if they want it. What is the SEC going to do? yes you have 16 teams and your going to probably play 9 league games but if every PAC 10, ACC and big 10 team already has 10 or 11 power 5 games scheduled. Who are you scheduling for your out of conference games? All are either going to have to be group of 5 or 1-AA

This might actually open up more pay days or potential match-ups with bigger teams for group of 5.

I think 1-AA fall games are going to go away. I think traditional spring games are going to go away so instead of Ohio having a inter team spring game. You are going to bring in 1-AA team the way spring ball is spread out a lot of these games could be televised and schools could charge admissions another pay day for everyone.

just my 2 cents
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 1:33:17 PM 
SBH wrote:
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.


How the G5 hasn't yet sued the rest of the college football cartel is beyond me.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 2:01:27 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.


How the G5 hasn't yet sued the rest of the college football cartel is beyond me.


Because their scheduled pay days are too high for them to do anything about it. The P5 will say "oh you don't want $1M to play us? Fine we'll give that money to someone else."

To me, they aren't even looking at the real problem. The problem isn't the SEC, Big Ten or these other P5 conferences/schools banding together. The problem is ESPN. For years the G5 has been picking at the remaining carcass of the antelope of TV money while the bigger conferences basically get a blank check to do whatever they want, courtesy of ESPN. The MAC made an absolutely dreadful TV deal when they re-upped with ESPN a few years ago.

ESPN owns the College Football Playoff, so they're gonna pay for whatever they want to put on TV, which is probably why we'll never see G5 in the playoff's current format because it doesn't agree with their business model.

It really doesn't matter anyway. We're headed for a second-tiered division of football here in the next decade or so. The schools who should be really upset are these schools like Cincinnati, UCF, South Carolina, Illinois, Boston College, etc. Those schools that are on the fringes of power status or in the basement of their current conferences are gonna get left behind once ESPN and these leagues decide they can make a pseduo NFL Minor League with 20-30 teams and that's it.

Last Edited: 8/20/2021 2:03:27 PM by GoCats105
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SVAC83
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 2:12:39 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.


How the G5 hasn't yet sued the rest of the college football cartel is beyond me.


Because their scheduled pay days are too high for them to do anything about it. The P5 will say "oh you don't want $1M to play us? Fine we'll give that money to someone else."

To me, they aren't even looking at the real problem. The problem isn't the SEC, Big Ten or these other P5 conferences/schools banding together. The problem is ESPN. For years the G5 has been picking at the remaining carcass of the antelope of TV money while the bigger conferences basically get a blank check to do whatever they want, courtesy of ESPN. The MAC made an absolutely dreadful TV deal when they re-upped with ESPN a few years ago.

ESPN owns the College Football Playoff, so they're gonna pay for whatever they want to put on TV, which is probably why we'll never see G5 in the playoff's current format because it doesn't agree with their business model.

It really doesn't matter anyway. We're headed for a second-tiered division of football here in the next decade or so. The schools who should be really upset are these schools like Cincinnati, UCF, South Carolina, Illinois, Boston College, etc. Those schools that are on the fringes of power status or in the basement of their current conferences are gonna get left behind once ESPN and these leagues decide they can make a pseduo NFL Minor League with 20-30 teams and that's it.


Maybe i am in a minority. But i think if college football goes to that it will implode. Because college football is regional and kind of cult like. When you eliminate down to 30 teams i will probably watch as much of it as i do the NFL which would be maybe 3 or 4 games a year.

Where in the current state of college football i probably watch 40 games a year of more.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 2:45:14 PM 
SVAC83 wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.


How the G5 hasn't yet sued the rest of the college football cartel is beyond me.


Because their scheduled pay days are too high for them to do anything about it. The P5 will say "oh you don't want $1M to play us? Fine we'll give that money to someone else."

To me, they aren't even looking at the real problem. The problem isn't the SEC, Big Ten or these other P5 conferences/schools banding together. The problem is ESPN. For years the G5 has been picking at the remaining carcass of the antelope of TV money while the bigger conferences basically get a blank check to do whatever they want, courtesy of ESPN. The MAC made an absolutely dreadful TV deal when they re-upped with ESPN a few years ago.

ESPN owns the College Football Playoff, so they're gonna pay for whatever they want to put on TV, which is probably why we'll never see G5 in the playoff's current format because it doesn't agree with their business model.

It really doesn't matter anyway. We're headed for a second-tiered division of football here in the next decade or so. The schools who should be really upset are these schools like Cincinnati, UCF, South Carolina, Illinois, Boston College, etc. Those schools that are on the fringes of power status or in the basement of their current conferences are gonna get left behind once ESPN and these leagues decide they can make a pseduo NFL Minor League with 20-30 teams and that's it.


Maybe i am in a minority. But i think if college football goes to that it will implode. Because college football is regional and kind of cult like. When you eliminate down to 30 teams i will probably watch as much of it as i do the NFL which would be maybe 3 or 4 games a year.

Where in the current state of college football i probably watch 40 games a year of more.


I don't know, to me if you cut out all those large programs and have some kind of actual National Championship to play for amongst everyone else, maybe it improves it. I agree a new division for themselves would suck, because the sport is fun when little schools upset big ones. But the money is driving this bus and schools like Ohio and Rice simply don't have it.

TV money can be blamed for the current state of college football's regionally divided interest also. The sport is more fun when everyone has a vested interest, but half the country doesn't even pay attention because the PAC 12 just isn't on the same level. Recruits who were penciled in for USC or UCLA are now bolting East toward the SEC. This all could change a little with the NIL deals taking place. Think of how much money a kid could potentially make on his NIL in Los Angeles versus Columbia, SC or Athens, GA.

Last Edited: 8/20/2021 2:46:18 PM by GoCats105
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 2:58:18 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
SVAC83 wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.


How the G5 hasn't yet sued the rest of the college football cartel is beyond me.


Because their scheduled pay days are too high for them to do anything about it. The P5 will say "oh you don't want $1M to play us? Fine we'll give that money to someone else."

To me, they aren't even looking at the real problem. The problem isn't the SEC, Big Ten or these other P5 conferences/schools banding together. The problem is ESPN. For years the G5 has been picking at the remaining carcass of the antelope of TV money while the bigger conferences basically get a blank check to do whatever they want, courtesy of ESPN. The MAC made an absolutely dreadful TV deal when they re-upped with ESPN a few years ago.

ESPN owns the College Football Playoff, so they're gonna pay for whatever they want to put on TV, which is probably why we'll never see G5 in the playoff's current format because it doesn't agree with their business model.

It really doesn't matter anyway. We're headed for a second-tiered division of football here in the next decade or so. The schools who should be really upset are these schools like Cincinnati, UCF, South Carolina, Illinois, Boston College, etc. Those schools that are on the fringes of power status or in the basement of their current conferences are gonna get left behind once ESPN and these leagues decide they can make a pseduo NFL Minor League with 20-30 teams and that's it.


Maybe i am in a minority. But i think if college football goes to that it will implode. Because college football is regional and kind of cult like. When you eliminate down to 30 teams i will probably watch as much of it as i do the NFL which would be maybe 3 or 4 games a year.

Where in the current state of college football i probably watch 40 games a year of more.


I don't know, to me if you cut out all those large programs and have some kind of actual National Championship to play for amongst everyone else, maybe it improves it. I agree a new division for themselves would suck, because the sport is fun when little schools upset big ones. But the money is driving this bus and schools like Ohio and Rice simply don't have it.

TV money can be blamed for the current state of college football's regionally divided interest also. The sport is more fun when everyone has a vested interest, but half the country doesn't even pay attention because the PAC 12 just isn't on the same level. Recruits who were penciled in for USC or UCLA are now bolting East toward the SEC. This all could change a little with the NIL deals taking place. Think of how much money a kid could potentially make on his NIL in Los Angeles versus Columbia, SC or Athens, GA.


Yeah, that's why AAA baseball playoffs are so BIG!
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 3:50:07 PM 
What I see in this is the Big Ten is realizing that if they don't prop up the PAC-12 and ACC those conferences and the prestige of the Rose and Orange bowls are in jeopardy. They are circling the wagons and the Big 12 is absent.

This is ominous for the Big 12. For the MAC probably a good thing as the P4 only has 57 members with 16 of those in the SEC squarely in their own camp. SEC teamed up with the Big 12 and G5 in the playoff expansion committee which is resulting in more access for the MAC.

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 3:52:16 PM 
My guesss is that if there were would be two mega conferences SEC vs Big 10/Pac 12/ACC Alliance the MAC and other mid majors would implode, and cheering it all on would be several Mid-major presidents. They know the fan base would probably implode as well because as Billy said, no one gets excited about AAA playoffs.

Many mid major presidents wouldn't have to deal with athletic budget deficits. The lack of big time sports would be one less headache for them in an increasingly competitetive environment complete with a shrinking birth rate.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 3:58:28 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
OUbobcat9092 wrote:
It's not a merger, but an alliance to offset the increasing influence of the SEC.


I agree its not a formal merger.

But, from listening to the comments from representatives of the 3 conferences,
it does seem that intent is to concentrate "non-conference" games to opponents within the 3 conferences.

That will provide a number of "marque matchups " .

It also seems likely, that if the "alliance" works out, a merger would be the next step.



It is too unwieldy to merge into a 41 team conference. The Big Ten was looking into adding PAC-12 schools but that is too much travel. PAC-12 universities have their own in-state rivalries they don't want to leave behind in most cases.

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 4:03:12 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
My guesss is that if there were would be two mega conferences SEC vs Big 10/Pac 12/ACC Alliance the MAC and other mid majors would implode, and cheering it all on would be several Mid-major presidents. They know the fan base would probably implode as well because as Billy said, no one gets excited about AAA playoffs.


Behind the SEC and The Alliance the remaining FBS conferences won't be able to compete with them. Big 12 becomes for all intents a G5 conference. Some of them are already playing on the road at MAC schools.

Payday games may become more limited but Ohio doesn't play a lot of them anyway.

Last Edited: 8/20/2021 4:03:42 PM by Campus Flow

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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/20/2021 11:01:01 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
Big 12 becomes for all intents a G5 conference.


The rump Big 12 (watered down Big8) are not a power conference without Oklahoma and Texas, neither in terms of recruiting nor in terms of revenue once those contracts adjust to reflect the less valuable inventory.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/22/2021 8:40:32 AM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
There is no easy way around it. If the proposed Big 10/Pac 12/ACC merger happens, we are in a world of hurt. It seems they won't play non-conference teams which means no football paydays. Potentially it could even hurt other sports, especially basketball. We could be reduced to never playing any Power schools. It might be more competetive, but it won't do much for fan interest, and the money that funds the entire sports budget in the first place. We shall see, but storms clouds are on the horizon.


At least at OU, student fees fund the vast majority of the sports budget. We get very little on an annual basis from buy games. For die hard fans, games like Syracuse and WVU are attractive. For the vast majority of folks who walk through the gates of Peden, it's not really that big a deal. It will be interesting to see what effect Covid has on fan interest this fall. Cases are about to go through the roof here in Athens. First there was the county fair and now there are massive parties like the "pool party" on Congress across from Bromley yesterday afternoon that had at least 1000 students crammed into that parking lot. It looked like MTV Spring Break.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/22/2021 11:18:13 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
There is no easy way around it. If the proposed Big 10/Pac 12/ACC merger happens, we are in a world of hurt. It seems they won't play non-conference teams which means no football paydays. Potentially it could even hurt other sports, especially basketball. We could be reduced to never playing any Power schools. It might be more competetive, but it won't do much for fan interest, and the money that funds the entire sports budget in the first place. We shall see, but storms clouds are on the horizon.


At least at OU, student fees fund the vast majority of the sports budget. We get very little on an annual basis from buy games. For die hard fans, games like Syracuse and WVU are attractive. For the vast majority of folks who walk through the gates of Peden, it's not really that big a deal. It will be interesting to see what effect Covid has on fan interest this fall. Cases are about to go through the roof here in Athens. First there was the county fair and now there are massive parties like the "pool party" on Congress across from Bromley yesterday afternoon that had at least 1000 students crammed into that parking lot. It looked like MTV Spring Break.


Syracuse & West Virginia on the home schedule will help recruiting at the very least. Had these games been pre-pandemic they could have tested the capacity of Peden. At this point all bets are off.

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/23/2021 5:16:12 PM 
SBH wrote:
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.


On what grounds? There is no legal mandate that requires them to financially support the athletic departments at other schools. That's not what collusion and anti-trust are. Now, if they used their market influence and power to interfere in our media contracts or bowl tie-ins, that would be an anti-trust issue.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/23/2021 5:17:31 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
SBH wrote:
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.


How the G5 hasn't yet sued the rest of the college football cartel is beyond me.


Because having a product that fewer people want is not an anti-trust issue.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/23/2021 5:31:02 PM 
OUPride wrote:
SBH wrote:
I see a huge lawsuit on the horizon.


On what grounds? There is no legal mandate that requires them to financially support the athletic departments at other schools. That's not what collusion and anti-trust are. Now, if they used their market influence and power to interfere in our media contracts or bowl tie-ins, that would be an anti-trust issue.


Agree
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/23/2021 6:45:42 PM 
One thing the FTC and DOJ look at in an antitrust analysis regarding alliances among competitors is whether the alliances have the potential to adversely affect prices OR limit output in the market. Defining the market is always the tricky part. If you define the market as OOC games, an argument can be made that an alliance would limit the output of available OOC games if the three conferences agree to only have OOC games, or to have a certain number of OCC games, among themselves each year. Non-alliance teams would be precluded from a segment of the market controlled by the alliance. Individual conferences reducing OOC games by increasing the number of conference games shouldn't be a problem. But an alliance of conferences -- who up to now have been competitors -- acting together might be.

And if a severe limitation of OOC games causes non-alliance teams to get in a reverse bidding war for available OOC games with alliance teams that results in lower payouts than what had been in the marketplace before, that could be evidence of antitrust activity in adversely affecting prices.

I'm sure the well-paid lawyers for the three conferences are looking to avoid these kinds of things, but if their clients want to move ahead with an alliance that reduces the number of available OOC games, expect somebody not in the alliance to sue.

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/24/2021 11:19:04 AM 
Nicole Auerbach at The Athletic has been combing through this and brought up an important point. The Alliance wants to slow the playoff expansion and limit ESPN's stranglehold on CFB content.

https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/143001736361383...
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/24/2021 4:42:21 PM 
Sounds like the Alliance was agreed to today with a handshake, but not a formal document. Naturally the SEC and their media interests like Paul Finebaum are calling it embarrasing, and a desperation move. Whatever the case, it does appear that the Alliance wants to cut down on payout games to the mid majors like the MAC. We shall see what the end result might be. Would the MAC, the American, the Sun Belt, and Conference USA enter into some kind of their own alliance?

As I have stated before, the biggest chearleaders of this might be some mid-major presidents and their staffs (including some from the MAC) who would love nothing more than to leave big time sports behind and become something like a glorified Ohio Athletic Conference or the Great Lakes Intercollegiate Athletic Conference.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Big10/PAC12/ACC Alliance Ominous For The MAC
   Posted: 8/24/2021 5:44:51 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
Sounds like the Alliance was agreed to today with a handshake, but not a formal document. Naturally the SEC and their media interests like Paul Finebaum are calling it embarrasing,


Finebaum is a paid SEC shill and an ass. Yaps about "hey Alliance - what about the Big 12 - why you leaving them out"

Ahh because the SEC raped and pillaged the Big 12 of the key pieces and left the ugly ones behind - and then he makes is out like the Alliance is killing the Big 12. - did I mention he's an ass?
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