Welcome Guest! Create an Account login email: password: remember me: BASKETBALL Latest News News Archive Schedule/Results Multi-Media Recruiting FOOTBALL Latest News News Archive Schedule/Results Multi-Media Recruiting MESSAGE BOARD Message Home - Ohio Basketball - Ohio Basketball Recruiting - The O Zone - Ohio Football - Ohio Football Recruiting - Ohio Volleyball - Ohio Baseball - Ohio Olympic Sports... - General OU Discussion... - Website Feedback... - Posting Policy Edit My Profile Private Messages Logout CHAT LINKS site searchwhere to watchcontact usabout usadvertise with ushelp Message Board BobcatAttack.com Message Board Ohio Football Recruiting Topic:  Who to recruit Topic:  Who to recruit Author Message Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     Who to recruit    Posted: 11/6/2015 9:53:34 AM  Players who don't get injured. There. I just solved a big problem. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top colobobcat66 General User Member Since: 9/1/2006 Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO Post Count: 4,310 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/7/2015 11:33:15 AM  Monroe Slavin wrote: Players who don't get injured. There. I just solved a big problem. Smartest thing you've said in a long time. Back to Top BEG General User Member Since: 5/22/2013 Post Count: 40 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/7/2015 11:46:50 AM  Monroe Slavin wrote: Players who don't get injured. Those are the ones who don't play...and we already have plenty. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,270 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/8/2015 4:19:27 PM  BEG wrote: Monroe Slavin wrote: Players who don't get injured. Those are the ones who don't play...and we already have plenty. Very true. I'd settle, though, for recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Kevin Finnegan General User Member Since: 2/4/2005 Location: Rockton, IL Post Count: 1,114 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/9/2015 11:47:30 AM  L.C. wrote: Very true. I'd settle, though, for recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about. It took me a while to decipher what this meant, 'recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about.' What I believe that means is wanting players who are upfront about their injury history. Two thoughts here, though. One, what benefit would this be to the player? If a scholarship is possibly on the table, I can't imagine a player saying, 'Hey coach, just so you know, I have recurring back problems and had to have my knee scoped last year." Secondly, and I'm not a lawyer or a doctor, but wouldn't pressing this by the coaches be a violation of HIPPA laws to force players to disclose their entire medical history to the coaches? Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,270 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/9/2015 11:58:57 AM  finnOhio wrote: L.C. wrote: Very true. I'd settle, though, for recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about. It took me a while to decipher what this meant, 'recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about.' What I believe that means is wanting players who are upfront about their injury history. Two thoughts here, though. One, what benefit would this be to the player? If a scholarship is possibly on the table, I can't imagine a player saying, 'Hey coach, just so you know, I have recurring back problems and had to have my knee scoped last year." Secondly, and I'm not a lawyer or a doctor, but wouldn't pressing this by the coaches be a violation of HIPPA laws to force players to disclose their entire medical history to the coaches? To me, if a player has a known injury, and the coaches make him a scholarship offer, they take the risk that he never recovers knowingly, and that's fine. As an example, consider Brian Sweeney, a QB recruit back in about 2006. He was known to have a shoulder injury, so Ohio was the only school that offered him. He never recovered, and never played. Ohio knew the risk they were taking, and it didn't work out. In another case, Duckworth had a knee injury as a Junior, and Ohio made an offer knowing that. He may or may not work out, but Ohio knew about the injury when they made the offer, so it was all above board. What about a situation where they make an offer to a guy who assures them that he's perfectly healthy, yet he has physical issues that will prevent him from ever playing? To me, that's sort of a fraud. If you want go the HIPPA route, and take the perspective that they don't have to reveal the injury, that's fine, but to make things fair at least give the schools the same option that businesses have: When the kids report, the schools should be able to give them a physical and medical exam, and if they don't pass, they don't qualify for the the scholarship. Last Edited: 11/9/2015 12:00:06 PM by L.C. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 7,055 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/9/2015 12:09:17 PM  L.C. wrote: finnOhio wrote: L.C. wrote: Very true. I'd settle, though, for recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about. It took me a while to decipher what this meant, 'recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about.' What I believe that means is wanting players who are upfront about their injury history. Two thoughts here, though. One, what benefit would this be to the player? If a scholarship is possibly on the table, I can't imagine a player saying, 'Hey coach, just so you know, I have recurring back problems and had to have my knee scoped last year." Secondly, and I'm not a lawyer or a doctor, but wouldn't pressing this by the coaches be a violation of HIPPA laws to force players to disclose their entire medical history to the coaches? To me, if a player has a known injury, and the coaches make him a scholarship offer, they take the risk that he never recovers knowingly, and that's fine. As an example, consider Brian Sweeney, a QB recruit back in about 2006. He was known to have a shoulder injury, so Ohio was the only school that offered him. He never recovered, and never played. Ohio knew the risk they were taking, and it didn't work out. In another case, Duckworth had a knee injury as a Junior, and Ohio made an offer knowing that. He may or may not work out, but Ohio knew about the injury when they made the offer, so it was all above board. What about a situation where they make an offer to a guy who assures them that he's perfectly healthy, yet he has physical issues that will prevent him from ever playing? To me, that's sort of a fraud. If you want go the HIPPA route, and take the perspective that they don't have to reveal the injury, that's fine, but to make things fair at least give the schools the same option that businesses have: When the kids report, the schools should be able to give them a physical and medical exam, and if they don't pass, they don't qualify for the the scholarship. That's surprising that they don't give physicals. Even in high school you have to pass a physical before you can play in Ohio. How often do you think this really happens though? Back to Top Kevin Finnegan General User Member Since: 2/4/2005 Location: Rockton, IL Post Count: 1,114 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/10/2015 10:49:21 AM  L.C. wrote: finnOhio wrote: L.C. wrote: Very true. I'd settle, though, for recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about. It took me a while to decipher what this meant, 'recruiting players that don't have injuries they haven't told the staff about.' What I believe that means is wanting players who are upfront about their injury history. Two thoughts here, though. One, what benefit would this be to the player? If a scholarship is possibly on the table, I can't imagine a player saying, 'Hey coach, just so you know, I have recurring back problems and had to have my knee scoped last year." Secondly, and I'm not a lawyer or a doctor, but wouldn't pressing this by the coaches be a violation of HIPPA laws to force players to disclose their entire medical history to the coaches? To me, if a player has a known injury, and the coaches make him a scholarship offer, they take the risk that he never recovers knowingly, and that's fine. As an example, consider Brian Sweeney, a QB recruit back in about 2006. He was known to have a shoulder injury, so Ohio was the only school that offered him. He never recovered, and never played. Ohio knew the risk they were taking, and it didn't work out. In another case, Duckworth had a knee injury as a Junior, and Ohio made an offer knowing that. He may or may not work out, but Ohio knew about the injury when they made the offer, so it was all above board. What about a situation where they make an offer to a guy who assures them that he's perfectly healthy, yet he has physical issues that will prevent him from ever playing? To me, that's sort of a fraud. If you want go the HIPPA route, and take the perspective that they don't have to reveal the injury, that's fine, but to make things fair at least give the schools the same option that businesses have: When the kids report, the schools should be able to give them a physical and medical exam, and if they don't pass, they don't qualify for the the scholarship. So, are you saying you think this is happening disproportionately more at OHIO than elsewhere? Why do you think this is a big problem? What examples do we have of players coming in with pre-existing conditions that were unreported? Also, I cannot believe that at OHIO we don't require the players to have physicals to play for the team. I know my brother played for Virginia Tech and it was required there. So, if that's the case, that is on our team, not the fault of the players. Then, if you're saying that the player should, out of the goodness of his heart, outwardly confess to nagging injuries, we should hold coaches to the same level of honesty. Shouldn't coaches at every collegiate level tell the players about their future intents rather than to hide them from the incoming players? And if they're dishonest, what recourse does the player have? Can he/she change school without any penalty? I don't think it's fair to put this blame on the players. Like with any organization, you need to look at the top (and I'm not specifically speaking of OHIO, I'm talking all collegiate athletics). Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,270 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/10/2015 10:52:40 AM  I'm sure they give physicals. It's just that they can't at that point decline to give the kid the scholarship. All they can do is refer the kid to a doctor or the trainer for surgery or rehab. As for how often it happens, its hard to know, but I'd be surprised if it is less than 2-3 players a year. finnOhio wrote: ...Then, if you're saying that the player should, out of the goodness of his heart, outwardly confess to nagging injuries, we should hold coaches to the same level of honesty. Shouldn't coaches at every collegiate level tell the players about their future intents rather than to hide them from the incoming players? And if they're dishonest, what recourse does the player have? Can he/she change school without any penalty? ... To me the kid can tell them about the injuries, or not tell them, but the scholarship offer should be conditional on passing a physical. If the kid fails the physical, the commitment should be null and void, and he should be able to go anywhere of his choice with no penalty. Last Edited: 11/10/2015 10:59:41 AM by L.C. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Kevin Finnegan General User Member Since: 2/4/2005 Location: Rockton, IL Post Count: 1,114 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/10/2015 3:01:20 PM  Sounds like a slippery slope with the pass/fail physicals dependent on the legitimacy of the scholarship. Is this a year-to-year thing or just upon entry as a freshman? Is it before fall practices? When does this physical for scholarship happen? Who performs it, the school or the child's personal physician? What happens to players who cannot pass the physical at the time but the school still wants them, are they exempt (e.g., Duckworth)? I just think if the school gets to have the say, there could be some shady workings at bigger schools, when they decide they don't want a kid, they could just have them mysteriously fail that physical and cut them loose. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,270 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/10/2015 3:28:55 PM  In business the normal hiring procedure is to make an offer contingent on passing a physical. If you pass the physical, you are hired, and you are an employee. Any problems that show up after that are irrelevant. That would seem reasonable here, too. When someone had a known injury, the physical would simply exempt that injury. I don't see anything unreasonable about this. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,778 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/11/2015 7:41:39 PM  The question to be asked is how complete is the physical? Are there X-rays of knees and shoulders to identify any existing injuries, is there blood work, ekg's and ultra sounds to detect cardiac issues? I'm willing to bet the answer is no. So the question is, who pays? Back to Top Paul Graham General User Member Since: 1/18/2005 Location: The Plains, OH Post Count: 1,424 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/12/2015 1:49:44 PM  You want to give the universities even more power over these kids? Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,778 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/12/2015 1:52:11 PM  Paul Graham wrote: You want to give the universities even more power over these kids? It's not power, it's an investment. Would you pay 100k for a known defective product that you will never get to use. Let's don't kid ourselves, athletics has a business side and your resources are limited and both sides have obligations to up hold. Being honest is one of those obligations. Back to Top Paul Graham General User Member Since: 1/18/2005 Location: The Plains, OH Post Count: 1,424 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/13/2015 6:13:20 PM  The relationship is completely unbalanced. Coaches make millions with little restrictions. Hell, they can pack up and leave whenever they want. Sometimes they don't even stick around to coach a bowl game! Can you imagine the reaction if a player decided to forego a bowl game to prepare for the NFL combine? People would lose their minds. Coaches can (and do) pull scholarships from players for all sorts of reasons. Look at Mr. Heitzman. I just think the balance of power is sooooo out of whack as it is. No reason to give them yet another tool to screw over the players with. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,270 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/13/2015 10:45:51 PM  Paul Graham wrote: You want to give the universities even more power over these kids? I just want it to be fair on both sides. I'm not talking about a guy like Duckworth, say, who was known to be hurt, and was offered anyway, and I'm not talking about a guy that gets hurt after he arrives. I'm talking about a guy that is hurt, knows he is hurt, but conceals it deliberately. Here's a hypothetical example, so tell me if you think it's "fair" to both sides: Player X is a promising high school senior offensive lineman, not a five star guy, but a solid two star player with an offer from Ohio. In his second to last game, he hurts his shoulder. Since he doesn't want to lose his offer, he doesn't tell anyone about it. He no longer cares if he has other offers to choose from, so he quickly accepts the offer from Ohio, then plays the last game, and tries to hide that he's hurt. No one notices, so on Feb. 1 he signs his letter of intent. He shows up for fall camp and says "oh, my shoulder is kind of hurting, could you check it out?" The doc looks, and says, "your shoulder is a mess. We can do surgery, but even then, you may never play again". So the kid says, "It's OK if I never play. At least my college education is paid for, and I get my shoulder fixed for free." Ohio pays for the surgery. After a year of rehab, the shoulder is still not good enough to play, so Ohio medically disqualifies him, and can use the scholarship again, but continues to pay on the scholarship for 4 years. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,778 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/13/2015 11:47:46 PM  L.C. wrote: Paul Graham wrote: You want to give the universities even more power over these kids? I just want it to be fair on both sides. I'm not talking about a guy like Duckworth, say, who was known to be hurt, and was offered anyway, and I'm not talking about a guy that gets hurt after he arrives. I'm talking about a guy that is hurt, knows he is hurt, but conceals it deliberately. Here's a hypothetical example, so tell me if you think it's "fair" to both sides: Player X is a promising high school senior offensive lineman, not a five star guy, but a solid two star player with an offer from Ohio. In his second to last game, he hurts his shoulder. Since he doesn't want to lose his offer, he doesn't tell anyone about it. He no longer cares if he has other offers to choose from, so he quickly accepts the offer from Ohio, then plays the last game, and tries to hide that he's hurt. No one notices, so on Feb. 1 he signs his letter of intent. He shows up for fall camp and says "oh, my shoulder is kind of hurting, could you check it out?" The doc looks, and says, "your shoulder is a mess. We can do surgery, but even then, you may never play again". So the kid says, "It's OK if I never play. At least my college education is paid for, and I get my shoulder fixed for free." Ohio pays for the surgery. After a year of rehab, the shoulder is still not good enough to play, so Ohio medically disqualifies him, and can use the scholarship again, but continues to pay on the scholarship for 4 years. ^^^^this happens at many schools more often then people want to believe, and some schools are putting verbiage in their LOI's to protect themselves. Back to Top Bcat2 General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 4,295 Status: Offline     RE: Who to recruit    Posted: 11/25/2015 8:35:19 AM  Will Ohio benefit from the 2014 Athens High class? "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." 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