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Ohio Football Recruiting

Topic: 3-Star recruits

Topic: 3-Star recruits

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L.C.
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3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/11/2013 10:54:03 PM

are a periodic subject discussion. I decided to go ahead and make a list of them. The following list is only Freshmen, and does not include transfers and Jucos (where a higher percentage are 3-stars):
E=ESPN, R=Rivals, S=Scout, 2=247Sports (starts in 2012)

2008 (2/15) - G. Moore (R), Tremayne Scott (R)
2009 (4/17) - Lechner (ESR), Hughes (ER), Woseley (R) Gary Fortune (R)
2010 (0/12) - none
2011 (11/22) - Russell (ER), L. Smith (S), Crutcher (ES), Price (R), T. Davis (S), Welter (ESR), Haser (S), Hammonds (S), Bennett (S), Powell (R), Venham (E)
2012 (8/13) - Gibbons (R), S. Smith (ESR2), Watson (E), Schany (ER), Windham (E2), Tanner (E), Laseak (E2), Patterson (E)
2013 (7/19) - Wyatt (E), Quallen (2), Alexander (S), Murdock (R2), Morgan (2), Ced. Brown (2), Leavitt (S)
2014 (9/17) - Duckworth (ESR2), Lowery (ESR2), Walker (E2), Brumfield (S), Brunson (S), Con Brown (2), Dudziak (S), Royster (S), McCray (ESR2)

During the Germano years, there were a few 3-star players recruited.

During the Isphording year none were recruited.

During the Haines years, about half the recruits have 3-star ratings by at least one service. Many of the players for 2014 have yet to be rated by all the services, so I'd expect the numbers to grow, and by the time it's all done, it will probably end up in the 50% range, too. It's the 2011-2012 classes that really played a lot this year, and will be moving into starting roles next year as Sophomores and Juniors.

Last Edited: 12/28/2013 6:36:57 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Casper71
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/12/2013 10:12:22 AM

Great stuff L.C. You know I like those 3-star guys. If we can get 6-8 OR MORE a year consistently we will be fine. But if we have one bad year (like 2010) you can see what the results are 4 years out!

Diamond Cat
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/12/2013 10:14:25 AM

Damn. I thought Sayles was a 3-star recruit. Oh well....my money is on him to be well above average in his career at OHIO.

Bcat2
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/12/2013 10:59:18 AM

Diamond Cat wrote:

Damn. I thought Sayles was a 3-star recruit. Oh well....my money is on him to be well above average in his career at OHIO.

Stars really are really not worth your anxiety. The key is that they find players who will find a home at Ohio, who will work thei butts off for five years and who the coaches can have a good relationship with over five years. Many highly rated high school players just are high school flashes and might make fans giddy in recruiting, but, don't have it for college. Also there are lots of players who just don't get the exposure to be evaluated. Sayles is Sayles, stars will not define him. Stars have not defined Brazill or so many others except to a few who love to go for the easy label.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

L.C.
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/12/2013 12:12:22 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Indeed, we saw the impact of a recruiting hole - when Seniors got hurt, there were no juniors behind them, and there was a big drop-off. What we really haven't seen yet is what the impact of these classes with 6-8 3-star guys a year will be. Over the next year years those classes, 2011-2014 will move up to upperclassmen, and then we'll see if there is a difference. I believe there will be a noticeable difference, as I think the 2011-2014 classes were significantly better than those that preceded them.

Diamond Cat wrote:

Damn. I thought Sayles was a 3-star recruit. Oh well....my money is on him to be well above average in his career at OHIO.

Interestingly not one of the 5 True Freshmen that played this year was a 3-star by any service. Wood, Sayles, Basham, and Mangen all started at least one game, and Stewart played in most games. I would say all of them are very good, and perhaps should have been 3-star players, and I look forward to 3 more good years from all of them.

As for the actual 3-star players in last year's class, being selfish, I hope they deserved their 3-star ratings, and all of them will be good players as well.

Bcat2 wrote:

Stars really are really not worth your anxiety. ...

Indeed,you can look back at that list of 3-star players, and note that some of them have yet to contribute, or have contributed only sparingly. So far as I know Eric Price and John Tanner have never played, for example. Jacob Welter, Andrew Bennett, and Justin Haser have played, but not much. Of course, there may be complicating factors. I know, for example, that the reason John Tanner hasn't played has been injury, and I know that the reason Haser has only played a little so far is that he went through a position switch, from DL to OT. I don't know the story on the others, but I hope that all these 3-star players will shine in the next couple years.

One final thought is this. The recruiting services put out their 4-5 star ratings very early, but the 2-3 star players take much longer to rate. Ohio makes it's initial round of offers before those players are generally rated. Ohio makes their offers to a group of players that they deem to be of sufficient skill level, and I would say based on what I see, that most of the players they offer end up being rated 3 stars, with some ending up higher. That tells you the skill level they think they can successfully recruit to Ohio.

Once the recruiting services get done, about half of the verbals end up being 3-star players. In the other half are players the coaches thought had similar skill levels, but players that the services elected to call 2-stars, for whatever reason. As we've seen this year, though, from Sales, Basham, Mangen, Stewart, and Wood, those guys may well be good players, too.I continue to believe that most of the 2-star guys they get are probably high-2-stars, and most of the 3-star players they get are probably low-3-stars, which is why we see as little difference as we do.

Last Edited: 12/12/2013 12:28:56 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Robert Fox
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/12/2013 12:42:04 PM

L.C. wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

Indeed, we saw the impact of a recruiting hole - when Seniors got hurt, there were no juniors behind them, and there was a big drop-off. What we really haven't seen yet is what the impact of these classes with 6-8 3-star guys a year will be. Over the next year years those classes, 2011-2014 will move up to upperclassmen, and then we'll see if there is a difference. I believe there will be a noticeable difference, as I think the 2011-2014 classes were significantly better than those that preceded them.

LC, while I generally agree, I question the bolded line above. In theory, the difference you're talking about would be most clearly demonstrated by team results. However, that would assume the strength of competition is unchanged. If our opponents are at a different level of competition (either better or worse), then our game results will not really tell us much.

Rumor has it, many of our MAC brothers are also improving. How we do against those teams in the future may not indicate much in terms of our recruiting successes.

GoCats105
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/13/2013 8:55:03 AM

Not that this is the be all, end all, but it is rather interesting to see we had zero 3-star guys in 2010. Those guys would be getting lots of playing time in 2013. Maybe this season wasn't really a matter of playing bad. Maybe we just didn't have the players.

L.C.
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/13/2013 9:09:00 AM

It didn't help anything, but it wasn't the whole problem. They played much better during the period from NTSU to EMU than they did in the games after EMU.

Last Edited: 12/13/2013 9:12:06 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/13/2013 10:17:18 AM

Some people just can't help bringing up we played terrible for so much of the year, especially the key games.

I prefer a more positive outlook.

I'll be here Thursday and parts of Sunday, folks.

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L.C.
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/19/2013 3:30:01 PM

Another place you can see the improvement is in rankings from Scout.com. One problem with their stars is that almost everyone gets 2-stars, so on it's face, they all look the same. There is a gradation, however. They also nationally rank players. The players down to 100 or so are the 3 stars and up, and from 100 to about 200 are the high 2-star players. So, lets go back, by year, and look at how many players were nationally ranked by Scout:
2005 - 1/25
2006 - 0/15
2007 - 2/20
2008 - 6/15
2009 - 4/17
2010 - 1/12
2011 - 10/22
2012 - 6/13
2013 - 10/19 (12 if you include Stewart and Jarid Brown who were ranked the prior year)
2014 - 10 of the 12 they have rated so far (Still need to do Irons, Langenkamp, and Meyer)

We see the same pattern. In the early years it was all under the radar guys. There was definite improvement in 2008-2009, but the 2010 was a step backwards. In 2011-2013 it is much better, and then this year is the best yet, by far.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/19/2013 9:50:39 PM

Using this metric, I looked at the other recruiting classes in the MAC, as reported by Scout. Clearly WMU has the best class, giving that they have 15 3-stars, and 28 total recruits. Basically Ohio is in a cluster tied for 2d, with BG, Ball State, and Ohio having almost all their players ranked:
WMU has 18/23 rated, of which 15 are 3-stars, plus 3 jucos and 2 not yet evaluated
Ohio is 10/12, of which 5 are 3-stars
BG is 11/12 with another one that hasn't been evaluated yet, but only 2 are 3-stars
Ball State is 12/15 with 7 3-stars.

The rest of the MAC has about 1/3 of the players rated, about where Ohio was in 2008-2009.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Robert Fox
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/20/2013 7:42:31 AM

LC, Using those numbers, wouldn't you put Ball State in second followed by Ohio?

L.C.
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/20/2013 7:53:29 AM

Yes, but the gap isn't that large. The gap from those 3 to WMU is much larger, as is the gap behind them.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Casper71
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/20/2013 9:38:57 AM

It will be interesting to watch WMU the next few years. 15 seems like an unheard of number 3-star recruits for a MAC team. Don't think I've ever seen more than maybe 10. The other question is can WMU put two or three classes like this together?

That 15 is a number much like UC has been getting lately and they have improved a lot the last ten years.

L.C.
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/20/2013 10:22:57 AM

I personally expect Fleck to be a Ron Zook type, a guy that can recruit like crazy, but where the team never really realizes its full potential under him. As some others have said, he'll probably be gone within 4 years, one way or the other (either because he succeeds, or because he fails). At that point, if they bring in a coach who excels at player development it could be a very good WMU team.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

C Money
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/20/2013 11:37:04 AM

I expect Fleck to continue to be a total clownfraud and most of those fifteen 3-star recruits to de-commit by February.

Row, row, row your boat....

Casper71
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/20/2013 6:43:34 PM

Still, wouldn't you love to see 15 3-star recruits in a couple of our classes? How can WMU do this with the year they had and we can't?

L.C.
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/28/2013 6:38:15 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Still, wouldn't you love to see 15 3-star recruits in a couple of our classes? How can WMU do this with the year they had and we can't?

Getting closer. With the addition of Royster and McCray there are 9 3-stars for you.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/30/2013 3:06:59 AM

Stars are mildly amusing to speculate about....but give me the Tunji/Patrick Tafua play on the field.

colobobcat66
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RE: 3-Star recruits

Posted: 12/30/2013 9:03:09 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

From hoops a year or two ago, I remember Tunji Adepipe (spelling is probably incorrect). Dude wasn't real big and he wasn't a greatly talented ballplayer. But he fought like hell on the boards and no one intimidated Tunji.

Stars are mildly amusing to speculate about....but give me the Tunji/Patrick Tafua play on the field.

I prefer talent and attitude.

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