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General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,272 Status: Offline     Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/11/2012 12:07:10 PM  The recruits are coming in too fast, and the services just can't keep up. All 4 services have rated and matched with Ohio the first recruit, Walsh.  As for the other seven recruits, well.... 1. ESPN has 3 as verbals, but hasn't rated any. They know 2 of the others exist, but have no entry for Mangen or Poling. 2. Scout.com has 2 as verbals, and has rated them. They have also rated 2 others, but haven't picked up the verbals. Again 2 of them are not in their database, for them it is Cope and Leavitt they don't know about. 3. Rivals has 3 as verbals, but only has rated one. They have three others in their database, and for them there is only one person not in the database, Alexander. 4. 247Sports has 2 verbals, both rated. They have 3 others in their database, and omit 3, Murdock, Bristol, and Mangen. Obviously these guys don't compare their notes with the others this early. Each of the seven other recruits is totally omitted by someone, and the people they each have as verbals is different.  My general comment is that ESPN is usually the slowest in getting people rated, since they generally focus on rating the top players, and it takes them awhile to work down. Scout is the fastest to rate them, but they rate almost everyone a 2-star, so who cares. This is my first year watching 247Sports, but they seem a little behind the others. Last Edited: 7/11/2012 12:13:21 PM by L.C. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top BuddyLee General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 668 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/11/2012 8:35:54 PM  Well let's hope they figure it all out before the high school football season starts.  A full season of evaluation time could provide a better chance to have our guys rated higher.  It's too bad we're more of an afterthought and none of these recruiting sites has a dedicated person to cover the Mac.  You would think there would be a way for someone to notify Scout or ESPN about our current list of commits so they could at least update the names. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,272 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/11/2012 8:56:14 PM  It's not so much that we are afterthought - they just have a lot of kids to watch film on. I can't even imagine how much film there is. They start with lists of who they think the best players are, and work down. Ohio is typically recruiting high 2-star/low 3-star players. They will start with the 5 and 4 star players first, then work on the 3s, and finally the 2s. All players are reviewed based solely on their junior film. Towards the end of the season, as in, between November and January, they try to look at Senior film of players, and re-rate them. They can't get to all the kids, I suspect, but they do re-rate some. Those are the ones where we see the ratings increases coming in (or decreases). They actually all do a pretty good job of building a database of the entire player pool, but they do miss some, and they add those as they go. As for who notifies them of verbals, I'm not really sure. I always had the impression that the players themselves do. The players, however, may only notify one or two, not all four. At some point, though, the services pick up from each other. For example, this morning Scout was only showing two players, then suddenly they had the same four as ESPN. Did they pick them up from ESPN? Or did someone notify them?  In any case, they do try to pick up the Ohio recruits. Each of them have been adding people every day, but they just are each getting about half of the players, so they are falling behind when the verbals come in this fast. It will all sort out in the end, though. In years past, some years they all have most all the recruits a few days before signing, while in other years they end up grabbing a bunch of names on signing day. When they get the name that late, they are never going to get reviewed, so they will get the minimum rating that each service gives, which is 2 stars from scout, 5.2 from rivals, and 4.5 from ESPN. I don't know about 247Sports, but I think their minimum is 70. Once in awhile they change it after that, but not often. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,157 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/11/2012 11:11:21 PM  Thanks for the analysis, L.C., but I must admit that I take these ratings with a grain of salt.  Though the very top recruits usually are as good as their rating would indicate, there are an awful lot of players who are 2 and 3 stars who turn out to be very good and become top NFL prospects.  I'll bet that Chad Pennington at Marshall and Big Ben at Oxford Tech were not close to 4 star recruits out of high school.  Here's hoping we get some of these diamonds in the rough in this recruiting class.  Heck, we might already have one in TT.  And, Brazill wasn't half bad either.   Edit:: Though I don't know how recruits were rated back in the 1960s, I'll bet that Todd Snyder was the highest rank recruit Ohio has ever inked in football.  He certainly would have been a 4-star recruit today.  Woody Hayes tried real hard to get him at Ohio State.  The only parallel I know in another sport at Ohio was Mike Haley, small forward on the Elite 8 team, who likewise spurned advances by the Evil Empire.  I suspect that in Baseball, Bob Wren had some recruits who were wanted by "big name" schools.  He, of course, was a big name himself in college baseball coaching circles.  As I recall at one time, he was ranked something like third in the country in the number of former players in pro ball.   It seems to me that in the late '60s to early '70s he had ten or so players in the majors at the same time.  This ranged from Hall of Famers like Schmidt to journeymen like Steve Swisher to bencher warmers whose names I can't remember at the moment.  I recall once seeing a list of coaches based on the players they had in pro ball and Wren was listed right behind a guy from Arizona State, who I think was second.  I can't remember who was #1.  He did certainly keep elite company. Last Edited: 7/11/2012 11:24:49 PM by OhioCatFan The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,272 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/12/2012 3:46:55 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: Thanks for the analysis, L.C., but I must admit that I take these ratings with a grain of salt.  ... LOL - Of course the ratings need to be taken with a grain of salt. It's the process that I find amusing: watching them struggle to keep up, trying to out do each other, trying to rate 5-10,000 players, trying to get it done as fast as the offers go out, and trying to keep up on who is committed to whom. When you think about all they have to do, the fact that they keep up as well as they do is pretty amazing, and whatever accuracy their rating have is a bonus. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,272 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/12/2012 4:44:10 PM  I would add that the reason I started watching the services to begin with is that when I came to this board I was met with the curious claim that when a player agreed to come to Ohio, his rating was decreased. I started tracking the ratings, and I have not seen that happen. In the time I have watched, I have seen one service reduce the rating on one player who had a verbal to Ohio, and that was a reduction from 5.7 to 5.6, still a three-star rating, and not really significant. Instead what I have seen is ratings going up on players committed to Ohio, on a regular basis. This ratings increase typically happens in November/December, when they start looking at film of the Senior season.  My theory is this - if the ratings were going down on players under the prior coaching staff when the services reviewed Senior films, it was not because the players were coming to Ohio, it was because they had been over rated to begin with. If the ratings are now going up, it is a sign that this coaching staff is doing a good job of rating the players, and picking players that continue to improve. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,157 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/13/2012 12:55:29 AM  L.C. wrote: . . .  My theory is this - if the ratings were going down on players under the prior coaching staff when the services reviewed Senior films, it was not because the players were coming to Ohio, it was because they had been over rated to begin with. If the ratings are now going up, it is a sign that this coaching staff is doing a good job of rating the players, and picking players that continue to improve. This is very interesting analysis, L.C.  It really makes a lot of sense because in the Knorr, PapaL, and Freak Nasty Eras we often had players who never lived up to their signing-day hype. Now, we see many players come into the program with little hype and then blossom into good to great players under the excellent tutelage of the coaching staff.  What you are saying is that some of that blossoming occurred in high when between their junior and senior years they improved and consequently increased their standing in the rating services.   The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top UpSan Bobcat General User Member Since: 8/30/2005 Location: Upper Sandusky, OH Post Count: 3,797 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/13/2012 9:40:52 AM  I think it's probably rare for the recruiting services to drop any player's rating. But I think it's probably not that uncommon for players' ratings to get raised when they commit to or even get offered by major schools. I think the recruting services and coaches use each other as a guide, to some extent. Solich has said before that the Ohio coaches use a combination of their own analysis and the services' opinions in evaluating and targeting players, and it only makes sense to have as many opinions as possible. However, I really think the coaching staff has been good at finding players the recruiting services underrate. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,272 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/13/2012 10:29:08 AM  UpSan Bobcat wrote: ... But I think it's probably not that uncommon for players' ratings to get raised when they commit to or even get offered by major schools..... I think there are various things that can trigger a new evaluation on a player. I know that unusual activity or interest in a player can trigger it. For example, I remember a QB that Ohio was recruiting as a Safety. He was considered a 2-star QB, which was probably fair. Now, when Carl Pelini left for Nebraska, he caused Nebraska to offer the kid as a Safety as well. Then, Ohio A&M heard about it, looked at the guy again, this time as a Safety, and made an offer as well, which he accepted. At some point, with all this activity, the services looked at him again, not as a QB this time, but as a Safety, and moved him to 3 stars.  Re-evaluations have also happened to Ohio recruits. I remember when Nwokocha was suddenly raised from 2 stars to 4 star, and I think T3 got a ratings bump up, too. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 7,055 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/13/2012 10:38:55 AM  Phil Steele has a new section on his website now that lists recruiting signees. He has only one signee for us so far. Back to Top OUBob General User Member Since: 9/9/2010 Location: Powell, OH Post Count: 278 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/13/2012 1:52:34 PM  L.C. wrote: UpSan Bobcat wrote: ... But I think it's probably not that uncommon for players' ratings to get raised when they commit to or even get offered by major schools..... I think there are various things that can trigger a new evaluation on a player. I know that unusual activity or interest in a player can trigger it. For example, I remember a QB that Ohio was recruiting as a Safety. He was considered a 2-star QB, which was probably fair. Now, when Carl Pelini left for Nebraska, he caused Nebraska to offer the kid as a Safety as well. Then, Ohio A&M heard about it, looked at the guy again, this time as a Safety, and made an offer as well, which he accepted. At some point, with all this activity, the services looked at him again, not as a QB this time, but as a Safety, and moved him to 3 stars.  Re-evaluations have also happened to Ohio recruits. I remember when Nwokocha was suddenly raised from 2 stars to 4 star, and I think T3 got a ratings bump up, too. Hmm... A QB looked at as a safety? Ended up at OSU? Maybe ended up playing a bit of QB?  I gots two guys in mind....  n00b Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,272 Status: Offline     RE: Watching the recruiting services    Posted: 7/13/2012 2:10:55 PM  His name was Zach Domicone, of Beaver Creek. He'll be a Junior in the fall, and hasn't played much. Interestingly I note that another player Ohio was after the same year, Orhian Johnson, has played a lot more. Here is Domicone's recruiting page. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 12  of 12 Posts Jump to Page:   1 View Other 'Ohio Football Recruiting' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 418 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 415 Guests 3 Registered Users:   Pataskala, Cats5, Mike Johnson There are no other users looking at this page.

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