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Ohio Football Recruiting

Topic: Next year

Topic: Next year

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Monroe Slavin
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Next year

Posted: 2/10/2011 2:13:44 AM

Counting my recruiting chickens before they're hatched, here are what I see as our co-number one big needs in the next class:

Destructive defensive tackles.

230 lb or bigger running back. Everyone's gone to the passing offense. I'm guessing this leaves defenses less able to stop a true power running attack. A way for us to be uniquely effective. I'm thinking GotFrank would not mind this at all.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Bcat2
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RE: Next year

Posted: 2/10/2011 7:19:48 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Monroe. Destructive DTs. Always look for that "man among boys type." A big back on his own does not "a true power running attack" make. That would take a revamping of the OL, TEs WRs etc. and Oh, by the way when you think about the best running attacks, how many have been centered around a back over 230 lbs? Just saying. To answer my own question, Wisconsin had three thousand yard rushers, two over 230, but, their leading rusher was James White who is under 200 lb.

Last Edited: 2/10/2011 8:03:09 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Next year

Posted: 2/10/2011 11:04:57 PM

Bcat2--That's exactly the reason for us to find that 230+ mover. No one else seems to be looking for that type so it may make it easier for us to find him. Then, a la the disruptive beauty of the Oregon fast-play game, we should bring something that no one else has. Something that others are not prepared to defend. BAM BAMBAM BAMBAMBAM

Also, I am hereby officially banning the use of these two words together" 'Just saying.' What does that mean anyway?

Bcat2
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RE: Next year

Posted: 2/11/2011 9:00:19 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Monroe, you do make a point. As the game changes to passing, defensive fronts get lighter and go for quickness. This perhaps makes them easier to run against. I would argue that Ohio has gotten better in areas through time with the systems in place, as the right athletes have been found for them and these athletes have spent some years in the systems. I would like to refine and refine what we are doing until the execution is there every play to create an efficient offense. The level of execution I am talking about takes a player years in the same offense to achieve without having to adjust to some new thing. We have seen Ohio get better in many areas even being ranked nationally in areas like turnovers and red zone efficiency. I am happy to let the coaches focus on what they feel they need to and wait for the result.

Last Edited: 2/11/2011 9:18:27 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Cat4ever
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RE: Next year

Posted: 2/11/2011 1:43:43 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Also, I am hereby officially banning the use of these two words together" 'Just saying.' What does that mean anyway?

"Just saying," "IMO" -- They are different ways to express a similar thought (IMO). Just sayin' ...

The only thing that is a fact is that nothing is a fact.
If this statement is true, it is also false.
--Dr. Donald Horning, circa 1965

Bobcat36
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/1/2011 2:30:25 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Is 221 close enough?

Ryan Boykin

	Class: RS Freshman
	Hometown: Woodstock, Ga.
	High School: Etowah

	Height / Weight: 6-1 / 221
	Position: RB

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/1/2011 11:50:37 PM

36--He's a start. We need to fill that devastating BIG RB spot. Might actually be something we can do given that so few teams have that--could mean that big RB's aren't available or that no one's really looking for 'em. If the latter, then we oughta step in FrankSolichrunninggame style and git 'em up!

Bobcat36
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/2/2011 12:16:01 PM

I'm wit ya Monroe...Totally see the logic!

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

T-Rodge
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/2/2011 12:50:39 PM

Monroe, OUr team doesn't have a "true power running attack" and we prolly never will again. We lack a FB and don't run out of the I formation. When we are faced with a 3rd or 4th and short, we run the zone-option read play out of the shotgun. Perhaps, we should recruit a 230+lb quarterback?? Have you seen a game in the last two years? If so, how many plays were ran out of a power or I formation? Let it go man.... those formations aren't even in OUr playbook anymore..... just sayin

“Sometimes when you bring the thunder, you get lost in the storm...” – Kenny Powers
"Bears Down", on their knees.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/3/2011 3:05:07 AM

No.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/3/2011 3:06:41 AM

Also, a running play out of the shotgun on short yardage is not optimal. Running back starts too far behind the line of scrimmage. A line that's dominating us (kents) loves that.

T-Rodge
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/3/2011 10:20:13 AM

I'm not saying its optimal to run out of the shotgun. I'm simply stating the facts that you continue to ignore. We don't run a power offense. Why can't you understand this? We are looking to add players with speed. The slow moving, road-graters are a thing of OU's past. Example, when was the last we even had a full back on OUr roster? Wasn't it Morsello-sp like 3 or 4 years ago? I didn't see us offering any of your BAM BAM movers this year either. We dropped the power game years ago. OUr game has changed...

“Sometimes when you bring the thunder, you get lost in the storm...” – Kenny Powers
"Bears Down", on their knees.

Monroe Slavin
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Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/4/2011 12:12:26 AM

Which means that we shouldn't even consider it?

Please do not engage in rigid thinking.

Rigid thinking leads to bad things...such as akron.

Monroe Slavin
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Location: Oxnard, CA
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/5/2011 12:11:34 PM

Mr. T-Rodge, let me give you a better answer.

Isn't the 'fact' that we are not a power running team exactly why we should run power stuff occasionally? Because we'll catch the oppo off guard if we do switch it up by going power on 'em, thereby gaining huge advantage.

Example: Back ago, the Browns qb (Kosar, I think) handed off to the running back who took a step to the line, turned back and pitched it back to Kosar who threw long to a receiver who was 15 yards open, td. When did a certain person in a very crowded-with-Browns-fans Sunday morning. bar on the westside of L.A. jump up and yell "Touchdown!"? As soon as the running back turned back and began to pitch it back to Kosar. It was so obvious that this play which the Browns had never run would catch the defense off-guard.

Didn't we used to be so tough to defend because we ran the triple option for which teams couldn't be game-speed ready for because they'd never actually been hit with it? (Not saying we should go option--well, a little. Just saying that it is silly to ignore possibilities.)

A slow ball is meat to a major league slugger. But isn't a pitcher quite effective by throwing the occasional change-up to catch the power-hitters off guard?

T-Rodge
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/5/2011 4:52:13 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Wow, where to start on this one.... First of all, I do appreciate your opinion and fanhood. But your football savvy really needs to be brought up to date.
We don't have the personnel to run a power game, that is a fact. There isn't a fullback on OUr roster, this makes running a power game almost impossible. And what kind of a HUGE advantage are we going to gain from switching into a formation that OUr players aren't familiar with running? Like the opposing defense isnt going to notice that we are in the I formation and audible, yeah the defense can audible too, to move 10 people into "the box", therefor prolly stuffing OUr butts at the line of scrimmage.
Ok, on to the next one.... Are you really going to reference a flea-flicker in the mid 80's as support for launching a power game. C'mon man... this is beyond a reach, even for you.
I'm all for gadget plays that help keep the D guessing. But this really has nothing to do with a power game. I was all for having two QBs on the field last year. I loved the TD that Boo caught, but we never went back to it. We really failed at utilizing OUr QB situation last year. I believe two QB's, one that can run like a horse, on the field at the same time is one of the best ways to keep a defense guessing. As opposed from attempting to just create a power game out of thin air...
Now for your triple option thoughts, yeah we were so hard to defend during those days that we didn't have one bowl game or conference championship. Off the top of my head, I think we had like one winning season running the triple option, under Grobe and Knorr combined. So, no the triple option is simply not an option and we were NOT that tough to defend. If we were, we would still be running it today.
Finally, how the heck are you gonna compare a pitcher to a football team's defense? I understand your point, but you're gonna need some better, or even relative, evidence to support you claims.
Dude, I understand that you're a big supporter of a power running game. But, that simply isn't the direction OUr program is headed. So why do you keep berating us with these posts calling for BIG MANZ and 400lb running backs? I'll trade 20-40lbs for a faster, more explosive, more mobile running back any day. And given OUr recent recruiting classes, I believe the coaching staff would do the same...
Please snapback from the 80's and realize that OHIO Football will prolly never run a power attack again. The power game, in college football, is simply a style of the past and has basically gone extinct. The game has changed, its time to adapt Monroe.

“Sometimes when you bring the thunder, you get lost in the storm...” – Kenny Powers
"Bears Down", on their knees.

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/5/2011 7:24:10 PM

T-Rodge wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

You missed that I advocate finding a big back in our recruiting, which was the whole point of my starting this thread (what to look for in next year's class). Didn't say we have the rb's we need for that now necessarily.

Yeah, the minute we go under center (didn't do it once last year) in a two back offense (led to a td vs. columbus, I believe) next year, the defense won't be discombobulated at all. That set won't give us any momentary advantage at all. It's like your denying that thinking and strategy are art of the game at all. Let's ignore the possible tools...even as you argue for two quarterback sets which is far more unusual than two back and/or power sets.

Flea flicker is given as an example of the thinking approach--the element of surprise--working. Are you really going to insist that the game is all about physical play? Are you really that unable to extrapolate from the particular to the general? Sorry, don't mean to bite; but your response compels that answer.

Triple option did bring us to the top (or near) of the MAC from being the absolute worst team in D1. So, it worked pretty well. And, Knorr, a fine man by all accounts, was not then suited to being a head coadh, so that era proves nothing. Second, it was Grobie recruiting a type of athlete (linemen, qb) which wasn't suitable for other sets and finding a way to employ them to great advantage. Again, it was a thinking approach.

Which I just don't get that you deny. Yeah, almost all D1 teams have gone away from the power game. Which gives us the opp to, at points, confound by going back to it. Which will happen as a 'phase' again--most teams will switch back to it, be it 4 years from now or 12 years from now.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/5/2011 7:25:42 PM

Retraction. I surrender: We shouldn't look to recruit a power, OHIO back at all. If you're the next Bo Jackson or Kalvin Mack-rae, look elsewhere.

T-Rodge
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/5/2011 8:29:23 PM

Monroe, all you're good at is blathering and putting words in my mouth. WINNING

“Sometimes when you bring the thunder, you get lost in the storm...” – Kenny Powers
"Bears Down", on their knees.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/5/2011 11:51:34 PM

There's a fair, reasoned response.

T-Rodge
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/6/2011 8:36:24 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Retraction. I surrender: We shouldn't look to recruit a power, OHIO back at all. If you're the next Bo Jackson or Kalvin Mack-rae, look elsewhere.

Bo Jackson was recruited at 220lbs. Kalvin McRae weighed 208lbs as a Senior.
www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcrae_kalvin00.html

www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksbo01.shtml

Now, which one of these fine athletes did I say we shouldn't recruit? Notice that NEITHER of your examples even weighed 230+lbs. Thus supporting my claim that you simply blather and put words in my mouth...No less the fact that we don't need a 230+lb RB.

“Sometimes when you bring the thunder, you get lost in the storm...” – Kenny Powers
"Bears Down", on their knees.

TWT
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/9/2011 12:19:02 AM

T-Rodge wrote:

Agree that the "type" of RB is really immaterial. The whole concept behind BIG MANZ was to have a guy to punch it in on short yardage. As you say with your posts, that can be effectively accomplished with speed or an option QB and a 5' 7" RB weighing in at 237 isn't really needed. I do see with Harden and Dallas Brown leaving next season along with medicore stats from the position the last couple of seasons along with a diminished return game that it makes sense to make the position a #1 priority in recruiting. This years class really stockpiled at the OL/DL positions and they brought in more depth at QB than ever before so I think we are good there. Overall the program looks more stocked with experienced upperclassmen than what it ever has.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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TWT
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/9/2011 12:41:46 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Triple option did bring us to the top (or near) of the MAC from being the absolute worst team in D1. So, it worked pretty well. And, Knorr, a fine man by all accounts, was not then suited to being a head coadh, so that era proves nothing. Second, it was Grobie recruiting a type of athlete (linemen, qb) which wasn't suitable for other sets and finding a way to employ them to great advantage. Again, it was a thinking approach.

That was 10-15 years ago when there was a lower caliber of athlete in the MAC where a program could walk in and turn around a program with the triple option. Think of the triple option teams we've played in recent years like VMI and Cal Poly, that was pretty much the talent level under Grobe. Those programs have been reasonably successful at the FCS level but would struggle to win 4 games in today's MAC. While the option led to 2 winning seasons under Grobe having a gimmick system in place hurt the long term development of the program and led to the transitional Knorr years. Knorr essentially became the scapegoat for Grobe's mess and with good timing Frank Solich was hired in. 2005 under Frank was essentially a 4 win Knorr season. 2006 the team overachieving Knorr. It was really 2007 when the team really started to feel a lot different with a large stable of quality receivers to throw to. Ohio's selling pitch in recruiting has gone from play at a beautiful campus to play on ESPN, play in bowls and for conference championships. That is why I think recruiting has become so much easier the last 2-3 seasons; Solich is not saying what he will do as much as what he has already done.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/9/2011 12:17:39 PM

Wes--I wasn't advocating that we use the triple option. I was merely asking if a unique approach, an approach grounded in thinking as well as in physical talent, could give us an edge. Didn't you write that we had inferior talent but used the uniqueness of the triple option to give us an edge? I like seeking advantages. So...

To quote my original thought...to quote a brilliant mind who's only wrong when he is...here's what I'd like to see as a priority in the next recruiting class: 230 lb or bigger running back. Everyone's gone to the passing offense. I'm guessing this leaves defenses less able to stop a true power running attack. A way for us to be uniquely effective. I'm thinking GotFrank would not mind this at all.

In fact, now I want two 230 plus pounders.

Last Edited: 3/9/2011 12:19:16 PM by Monroe Slavin

T-Rodge
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/9/2011 3:23:51 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I couldn't ask for a better example of rigid thinking...
Yet another fine post from OUr Encino Man

“Sometimes when you bring the thunder, you get lost in the storm...” – Kenny Powers
"Bears Down", on their knees.

Bcat2
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RE: Next year

Posted: 3/9/2011 6:33:14 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Monroe, I believe you would like to be the Wisconsin of the MAC and I would like that too. However, David did not out muscle Goliath. Ohio will take the next step when it has athletes who can make plays against the other teams best athletes. Playmakers win games. They are not all backs or WRs. Orlando Pace was a playmaker. Kellen Winslow was a playmaker. Suh is a playmaker. Cushing is a playmaker. Playmakers want to win. Schedule be damned, let the recruits see wins and more playmakers will be in green. Ohio's coaches have wrung/wringed every drop out of their recent rosters and will only get better with more playmakers. If the playmaker is 230 plus great, but, if the kid is that big and not a playmaker he needs to go where bigger is better but playmaking is not a priority.

Last Edited: 3/9/2011 6:37:42 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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